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edtop40
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Posted: 17 November 2004 at 3:58pm | IP Logged Quote edtop40

anyone know where i can find the 45 version of the song
"knock on wood" by amii stewart.....the 45 face says that
the 45 version on ariola america 7736 is the "short
stereo" version running 3:40 in length......BUT.....the 45
runs only 3:30 in length....the only place i see a 3:30
version is on an import cd titled "the no 1 classic pop
album"....which is out of print......does anyone have this
cd in their possession?....

Edited by edtop40 on 19 April 2021 at 4:53am


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Todd Ireland
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Posted: 17 November 2004 at 4:40pm | IP Logged Quote Todd Ireland

According to Pat's book, the 45 version has appeared on two U.S. CD releases:

1) VA - Then Totally 1 Oldies (Vaese Sarabande 302066219)
2) VA - Disco Classics (Varese Sarabande 302066465)

The run time for both clocks in at 3:37.
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Todd Ireland
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Posted: 17 November 2004 at 4:43pm | IP Logged Quote Todd Ireland

Oh... Just in case anyone might be wondering, the "VA" abbreviation indicates that a CD is a Various Artist compilation.
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Posted: 17 November 2007 at 6:54pm | IP Logged Quote jimct

I only own a promo 45 for this. One side has a listed time of (3:40), but an actual time of (3:37). This would seem to be the same version that appears on the two Varese V/A CDs that Todd points out above. This side of my promo does say "Short Stereo", like Ed's stock copy does, but clearly doesn't run (3:30). Ed, do you have deadwax info for your stock copy? And, given the confusion here, could someone else possibly time their stock 45 for us, and post their findings? My deadwax for this side is "7736 - AS SHORT 1A". The other side of my promo 45 says "Disco Stereo", has a listed time of (3:45), but an actual time of (3:58). Unfortunately, a version with this length does not appear on any of the many CDs for this song in the database. Deadwax for this side is "PRO 7736 AS SHORT DISCO - 1A."
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bdpop
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Posted: 17 November 2007 at 7:24pm | IP Logged Quote bdpop

Is the intro on the short disco version the same as on the 12" and LP?
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eriejwg
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Posted: 01 December 2007 at 11:57am | IP Logged Quote eriejwg

Just picked up a stock 45 on this one. Listed is 3:40; actual is 3:37.
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Posted: 01 December 2007 at 12:05pm | IP Logged Quote jimct

bdpop wrote:
Is the intro on the short disco version the same as on the 12" and LP?
bdpop, I don't currently own either the 12" or the LP, so I can't 100% confirm my memory, but we played the 12" at night to death when it was a current, and to the best of my recollection, the "short disco" DJ 45 version and 12" version intros are exactly the same.

Edited by jimct on 01 December 2007 at 12:05pm
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eriejwg
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Posted: 01 December 2007 at 12:35pm | IP Logged Quote eriejwg

Jim, deadwax on the stock 45 for this is: 7736 AS SHORT
Also labeled as Short Stereo.
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sriv94
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Posted: 01 December 2007 at 1:01pm | IP Logged Quote sriv94

Now, let me throw something into the fire. While on a trip to NY years ago, I was listening to WPLJ, where Scott Shannon and Todd Pettengill were doing their usual Friday feature "Flush The Format." One of the tunes played was "Knock On Wood"--which had the drum intro (not the electronic intro), but had the edit in the "you better knock, knock, knock, knock on wood, babe" refrain. The source was clearly vinyl (although it may have been on cart).

Which leads me to wonder whether there was more than one 45 version for this, either promo or commercial.

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aaronk
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Posted: 18 December 2007 at 1:55pm | IP Logged Quote aaronk

I was just able to hear a copy of the "Disco Short" version, which should probably be added as a song note to the database since this special DJ edit is not mentioned. (Pat, please see Jim's post above for deadwax and timing info.)

The "Disco Short" can be edited from the version on Disco Fever (Razor & Tie 2-CD set), and I'm assuming also from those other two "edit of LP version" CDs that also run (4:49). Essentially, you have to slow the speed of that version down by exactly 2% and edit off the first 27.8 seconds. (The promo 45 version starts with the snare hit, rather than on the first note of a measure.) Also, chop off everything from 3:58.6 to the end. Create a 20 second fade out, and you have the promo 45 version. I can't say for sure how this promo version compares to the LP version, but the edits on the Disco Fever version (if there are any) match up with the 45.
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Posted: 18 December 2007 at 2:26pm | IP Logged Quote aaronk

sriv94 wrote:
One of the tunes played was "Knock On Wood"--which had the drum intro (not the electronic intro), but had the edit in the "you better knock, knock, knock, knock on wood, babe" refrain.

This is exactly how the "neither" version on Pure Disco sounds, although there is a bad tape squealing noise throughout.
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MMathews
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Posted: 18 December 2007 at 5:50pm | IP Logged Quote MMathews

Hi All - this wasn't mentioned here that i noticed, altho may have been elsewhere - but for those interested the cd appearances of the 45 version of "Knock On Wood" are mastered from vinyl. From what i heard the master could not be located through normal channels.
For years i found it a little annoying everywhere it showed up on cd it was always some sort of edit of the LP version intro.
Oh, and for fans of the song I found an interesting version on an old vinyl Canadian V/A comp which has a section in the end choruses that was edited out of the US LP version. Once you hear it you can hear in the American version where the edit is.

-Mark M

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crapfromthepast
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Posted: 11 February 2009 at 6:51pm | IP Logged Quote crapfromthepast

It appears that I'm on a disco-songs-that-peaked-in-April-1979 kick (see the "Heart Of Glass" thread), so I thought I'd dissect Amii Stewart's "Knock On Wood".

What a mess!

I started with the commercial 45, Ariola Records America 7736, labeled as "Short", printed 3:40, actual 3:37. The deadwax reads "7736 AS SHORT" and possibly an "I" or an "X" following that. It has a BPM of 144.0 at the beginning and 143.7 at the end. (My software program reads it as "143.7".)

The intro to the commercial 45 has the synth "fly-over" going first right-to-left, then left-to-right. The instrumentation starts at 0:05, the first break with no instrumentation is at 0:57, the second break is at 1:44, there are 4 complete "think I better knock knock knock on wood"'s from 1:57 to 2:12, then a 4-beat drum fill, then the bridge. The fade starts on the downbeat at 3:26 and runs about 32 beats until silence at 3:37.

Next, I dug out Amii Stewart's Knock On Wood LP, Ariola SW 50054, printed 6:13, actual 6:09. The left/right channels are reversed, compared to the 45. The "fly-over" intro is absent, and instead there's a 92-beat drum intro for the first 40 seconds. The 0:40 mark on the LP version compares to the 0:05 mark on the 45.

The LP is much slower than the 45, with 139.5 BPM on the intro and outro and around 139.0 BPM in the middle. (Software reads "139.1".) That about a 3.2% or 3.3% difference, which is huge.

The first break falls at 1:34, the second break falls at 2:22, and there are 8 complete "think I better knock knock knock on wood"'s from 2:37 to 3:05. At 5:14, the song goes back to the drum-only portion that began the song. The fadeout is roughly 32 beats long and runs from 5:54 to silence at 6:09.

Then, I hauled out the 12" single. I can't tell if it's a promo release or a commercial single - it's got a yellow label, has a release number "PRO 7736", and has a neato generic Ariola cardboard sleeve that says "THE TWELVE-INCHER" at the bottom. The sound quality on this 12" is astounding! Both sides are labeled "Side A", which isn't very helpful.

One side is labeled "Fast Disco", matrix number PRO 7736 A/S, printed 6:10, actual 6:07. The tempo is 141.2 on the intro, about 140.6 in the middle, and 141.2 on the outro. (Software reads "140.8".) This is the album version, sped up by 1.2%. No other difference. The left/right channels are the same as the LP, and the opposite of the 45.

The other side is labeled "Slow Disco", matrix number PRO 7736 A/S RE-1, printed 6:13, actual 6:12. The tempo is 139.3 on intro, about 138.5 in the middle, and 139.3 on the outro. (Software reads "138.8".) This is the album version, slowed down by 0.2%, which is insignificant and is well within the tolerances of a lot of late-'70s-era tape machines. The "slow disco" version is effectively the album version. The left/right channels are the same as the LP, and the opposite of the 45.

We know that the fly-over intro is lost to history, and that the only versions of that on CD are taken from vinyl. The only versions on CD taken from tape either have the drum-only intro from the album/12" versions, or have a ridiculous re-recording of the intro (see below).

The first version to appear on CD was a sped-up early fade of the LP version. This runs 144.3-143.6 BPM (beginning-to-end), and so is the proper 45 tempo. These runs about 4:49. The left/right channels match the LP and are the opposite of the 45.
  • Silver Eagle's Dancin' The Night Away (1988, best-sounding of these three even though the levels are a bit low)
  • Priority's Mega-Hits Dance Classics Vol. 10 (1991, mastered too loud and clips a lot)
  • Razor & Tie's Disco Fever (1991, tinny-sounding EQ)
There's a version running 3:49 that cuts off the first 65 beats (27 seconds) and starts with a snare. It has a roughly 32-beat fade starting on the downbeat from 3:35 to 3:49 (4:02 to 4:15 in the LP version). It runs 144.0-143.7 BPM, so it matches the 45 tempo. The left/right channels match the LP and are the opposite of the 45. It's on:
  • Rhino's The Disco Years, Vol. 3 (1992, spectacular sound on this CD)
  • Time-Life's Seventies Dance Party - 1978-1979 (differently EQ'd clone of above CD)
  • Rhino's New Millennium Disco Party - The Divas (2000, about 1.2 dB louder than above Rhino CD but too loud and clips a lot)
There's a unlistenable version on these two CDs that has a terrible ringing in all but the first minute of the track. Plus, there's some awful tape drag, so the song begins at 141.2 BPM and ends at 138.5 BPM. You can definitely hear that something is wrong. The left/right channels match the 45 and are the opposite of the LP. It runs 3:42.
  • Polydor's Pure Disco (1996)
  • EMI Australia's Seventies Complete (5-CD set, 1997)
There's another edit of the LP version, running 3:57 and 139.0 BPM throughout, with left/right channels that match the 45 and are the opposite of the LP. It's on:
  • Connoisseur Collection's 100 All Time Classic Dance Hits Of The 1970s (1988, thin-sounding EQ)
Finally, there's a version running 4:08 that features a newly-recorded 30-second intro. There are overdubs and severe mix differences in the rest of the song as well. Not for the purists...
  • Disky UK's Wow That Was The 70's (8-CD set, 1999)
One might ask, which is the "proper" tempo? I don't have a guitar tuner handy, but since half-steps are about 5.9% apart (2^(1/12)), one could figure out which version is closest to an actual note (baed on 440-A), and that would be the speed at which it was recorded. Assuming that the musicians tuned up before they played...

Edited by crapfromthepast on 11 February 2009 at 6:58pm
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Yah Shure
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Posted: 11 February 2009 at 10:08pm | IP Logged Quote Yah Shure

Ron, you really need to find a hobby. ;)

Great job on the info! You didn't specifically mention it, so perhaps your 12-inch sleeve didn't come with the sticker that mine has. It's really dark, and even with considerable lightening, it's not that clear in the photo, but under the title/artist, it reads "Dee Jay Consultant Rusty Garner" and "PRO 7736". Being as how several Prism promo 45s I have from the same period have the same yellow label, I'd say that it's pretty likely that this 12-inch is a promo as well.

We were going to do a Picture Disc Weekend at WJON in early '79, but the PD canceled it after many labels had already sent giveaways. I still have fifteen (!) copies of the picture disc 12-inch single (shown with the original box.) Each copy is sealed in a transparent vinyl sleeve, with a sticker on the lower left corner. The catalog number is PRP 7736, with the 6:10 version on side 1 and "When You Are Beautiful" on side 2.

BTW, one of my fellow jocks/collectors and I each took two copies of the Barry Manilow's Greatest Hits picture disc double-LP set to the St. Cloud Musicland and traded them for one copy each of the then-new MCA UK import The Complete Buddy Holly boxed LP set. It was win-win... and yet I still have too many of those Manilow sets to this day. :)
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TomDiehl1
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Posted: 11 February 2009 at 11:53pm | IP Logged Quote TomDiehl1

Nice picture disc! Never seen that before in my life.

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crapfromthepast
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Posted: 12 February 2009 at 6:28am | IP Logged Quote crapfromthepast

Me neither! I do have the Manilow GH picture disc, though!

I'm pretty sure this will be the last of the monstrous threads for a while... :)
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Posted: 12 February 2009 at 3:48pm | IP Logged Quote MMathews

crapfromthepast wrote:
Finally, there's a version running 4:08 that features a newly-recorded 30-second intro. There are overdubs and severe mix differences in the rest of the song as well. Not for the purists...


Hi Ron!
This last version you mention, from the description sounds like an edit of a 1985 U.K. 12" Remix... sort of a re-issue for club play. Says on it "NEW REMIX" and lists the title as "Knock On Wood / Ash 48". It has some extra percussion and is remixed as you describe. I'd gues they used that for this V/A comp. The 12" lists the time as 7:46.

-MM
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Posted: 28 March 2012 at 8:00am | IP Logged Quote aaronk

crapfromthepast wrote:
There's a version running 3:49 that cuts off the first 65 beats (27 seconds) and starts with a snare. It has a roughly 32-beat fade starting on the downbeat from 3:35 to 3:49 (4:02 to 4:15 in the LP version). It runs 144.0-143.7 BPM, so it matches the 45 tempo. The left/right channels match the LP and are the opposite of the 45. It's on:
  • Rhino's The Disco Years, Vol. 3 (1992, spectacular sound on this CD)
  • Time-Life's Seventies Dance Party - 1978-1979 (differently EQ'd clone of above CD)
  • Rhino's New Millennium Disco Party - The Divas (2000, about 1.2 dB louder than above Rhino CD but too loud and clips a lot)

I heard this song on the radio this morning, and they used the awful sounding version with the ringing throughout. It made me revisit this thread, and I have some new info for Pat.

The CDs listed above actually contain the "Disco Short" promo 45 version, except that they run 2% too fast and fade about 4 seconds earlier than the true promo 45. The speed and early fade is what accounts for the 9 second difference between the promo 45's (3:58) run time and the CD, but the edits exactly match the 45.

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Posted: 28 March 2012 at 8:15am | IP Logged Quote aaronk

Here's one more discovery. I have a promo CD set from a Canadian company that has a 5:40 version of "Knock On Wood," and this version does have the same "fly-over" intro as the 45! It is clearly a tape source, too.

The company that produced the CDs (ERG Music, "Knock Out Hits") is targeted at professional DJs, and they do not have any special access to master tapes. In fact, tons of tracks on their discs are straight from vinyl. That means this tape-sourced 5:40 version must be on CD somewhere in the world.

Does anyone know where it may have originated from? Also, would this version perhaps be an original LP version (similar to other disco songs where the 12" version replaced the LP version on later pressings)?

Edited by aaronk on 28 March 2012 at 8:16am


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The Hits Man
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Posted: 30 March 2012 at 7:55pm | IP Logged Quote The Hits Man

Crap, I have this on a Varese Vintage comp that says it's
the 45 version. I also have my Ariola 45 somewhere, but it
was not a two-sided single. I'll have to dig it out now to
see if the tempos match. I know the edit is correct on the
CD I have.

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