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Subject Topic: I Don’t Want To Be Right = Luther Ingram Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Posted: 04 August 2010 at 2:47pm | IP Logged Quote MMathews

I was curious to see if the stereo LP version was a different recording or alternate take, so i did a quick synch-up of the stereo and mono. It's the same backing track, but indeed a different vocal take, the entire song.
It was very similar so i never noticed that.
BTW, i did own the Koko stereo LP, so it must have been the later stereo pressing. I assumed the Varese/Dick Bartley CD dubbed it from that LP, but it was such a clean clear copy i got rid of the LP several years ago, so i don't have the dead-wax numbers or anything.
Oh weel, now i know why the mono version is used so much.
I won't let this new info bother me much about the stereo version, i mean if i didn't notice it was different in 25 years, i guess its close enough.
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Posted: 05 August 2010 at 4:46am | IP Logged Quote PhilMH

Now that I've listened over headphones, I can hear the pop and noise at 0:35 and 1:08 (though still not the one at 2:47!) and I agree that the "wrong" near the end is ever-so-slightly different. Still, it's close enough to the hit to not matter, I'm just glad to hear it in stereo at last! I've now ordered the UK two-on-one of Luther's first two albums, it will be interesting to hear whether or not it is the same tape.

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Todd Ireland

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Posted: 28 July 2013 at 10:35pm | IP Logged Quote Todd Ireland

The database currently notes that both the 45 and LP run time of Luther Ingram's "(If Loving You Is Wrong) I Don't Want to Be Right" is 3:32. According to some notes I have from Jim, he reports his commercial 45 copy has an actual run time of 3:29, not 3:25 as stated on the record label.
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Posted: 25 March 2018 at 12:12pm | IP Logged Quote crapfromthepast

I'm going to go out on a limb, and speculate about four points, none of which I can verify firsthand:
  • The source tapes for "(If Loving You Is Wrong) I Don't Want To Be Right" haven't survived into the CD age. KoKo was not exactly a large label.
  • All the CD versions of this song are taken from vinyl.
  • The hit version of the song only exists in mono. The 45 was mono, and from discussion earlier in this thread, it sounds like the original pressings of the LP were also mono. I would assume that the mono LP version is the same as the 45 version, so that all mono versions are "45 and mono LP version". The printed time of the 45 is 3:25.
  • Someone at the label wanted a stereo release of the LP, which was originally released in mono. For some reason, Luther Ingram's original vocals weren't easily accessible from the multi-tracks, so the label had Luther Ingram rerecord his vocals for the stereo version. All the stereo versions of the song are "stereo LP version". The printed time of the LP version is 3:32, so someone at the label was aware that the stereo version was longer than the mono.
Again, pure speculation on my part.

45 and mono LP version (3:29)

The oldest CD I have with the song is Rhino's Didn't It Blow Your Mind Vol. 8 (1991), where it runs 3:25. The database says "sounds like it was mastered from vinyl", and I believe that it really is a needledrop, but I don't hear the usual artifacts that I hear from needledrops. It's a very good needledrop, with excellent dynamic range, and nice EQ. I don't hear any evidence of noise reduction on the fade, although it's possible that Rhino hastened the fade to mask the low-volume vinyl artifacts at the end of the track. The following CDs all use the same needledrop as Didn't It Blow Your Mind Vol. 8:
  • Time-Life's Sounds Of The Seventies Vol. 21 Rock 'N' Soul Seventies (1991) - digitally exactly 0.5 dB quieter
  • Rhino's Billboard Hot Soul Hits 1972 (1995) - digitally identical
  • JCI's Only Love 1970-1974 (1995) - absolute polarity inverted (insignificant)
  • Time-Life's 2-CD Body Talk Vol. 8 On My Mind (1996) - slightly truncates tail of fade
  • Madacy's Rock On 1972 (1996) - digitally exactly 0.5 dB quieter
  • Time-Life's Solid Gold Soul Vol. 7 1972 (1996) - absolute polarity inverted (insignificant)
  • Time-Life's Solid Gold Soul Vol. 27 Deep Soul (1999) - digitally exactly 1.5 dB quieter than Body Talk Vol. 8 On My Mind
  • Time-Life's Solid Gold Soul #1 Love Songs Of The '70s (2000) - digitally exactly 0.36 dB louder than Solid Gold Soul Vol. 7 1972
There's a different needledrop on Time-Life's 2-CD Body And Soul Vol. 7 Slow And Easy (1999). It runs 3:31 here, with a significantly longer fade than the Rhino version. It's the same vocal take as the Rhino disc (I checked that myself). This version has some turntable rumble on the fade, and one tick/pop on the fade that certainly sounds like vinyl. No noise reduction, though, and it sounds about as good as the Rhino version. I'm not sure where this needledrop originated, but I'd guess either The Right Stuff's Greatest Hits or Malaco's Greatest Hits - again, more speculation on my part. Because this runs two seconds longer than the 45, maybe it's the "mono LP length"?

Stereo LP version (3:38)

It's clearly a needledrop on Varese Sarabande's Dick Bartley On The Radio Vol. 5 (1998), with turntable rumble noise reduction artifacts on the fade. Safe to say that the other 3:38 versions on CD are all from this needledrop.

My recommendations

For the 45/mono LP version, go with Time-Life's 2-CD Body And Soul Vol. 7 Slow And Easy (1999), but only because the fade extends longer than the other discs. Any of the CDs I listed above sound good.

For the stereo LP version, go with Varese Sarabande's Dick Bartley On The Radio Vol. 5 (1998).

There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one Crap From The Past.
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Posted: 27 April 2018 at 8:12am | IP Logged Quote KentT

Some things to know. Koko Records in that era was
distributed by Stax Records in Memphis during their
independent era. Larry Nix mastered the original Plastic
Products Memphis pressing of the 45 I own. Fantasy Records
bought the post 1968 Stax/Volt/Enterprise/Ardent catalog
in 1976. I wonder if the single master is sitting on an
old Stax job reel of 1972 singles masters? It might well
if these singles masters have survived. And if so, are
they in Concord's Stax master tape library. Stranger
things have happened.

Edited by KentT on 27 April 2018 at 8:13am

I turn up the good and turn down the bad!
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The Hits Man

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Posted: 17 May 2018 at 3:19am | IP Logged Quote The Hits Man

Kent, the single version was released on CD twice by
Rhino. It is on:

Soul Hits Of The '70s - didn't it blow your mind! Vol. 8
Billboard Hot Soul Hits; 1972

Of course, both CDs are long out of print. Ever since
those two CDs were released, everyone has been using that
stereo version, which sounds very close to the single,
not it.

The KoKo label was short-lived, and was distributed by
Stax Records. The label was set up for Johnny Baylor.

Edited by The Hits Man on 17 May 2018 at 3:21am

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Posted: 28 May 2018 at 6:46am | IP Logged Quote KentT

Yes, and it sounds like it was taken from vinyl. Transfer
is reasonably good given that. I was pointing out where
the tapes likely exist which made that 45 to begin with.

And where for reissue engineers to begin looking. The
tapes are likely still at Concord in the vaults on a
singles master reel.

When 45 RPM singles get prepared for a label release,
they get spliced together on a 10 1/2" reel of full track
Mono or half track Stereo tape to facilitate lacquer
mastering and the succeeding steps for plating and
pressing. Stax would have assembled this reel, Larry Nix
used it to cut lacquer masters for 45 RPM pressing. Then
usually the reel would get returned to the vault.

I know that Koko was distributed then by Stax, and the
label later became independently distributed. But not
unusual for singles masters left behind in a former
distributed label's singles job master reel in their
vaults. And these days, likely stored at Iron Mountain in
their vault.

Edited by KentT on 28 May 2018 at 6:57am

I turn up the good and turn down the bad!
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