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Subject Topic: I Don’t Want To Be Right = Luther Ingram Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Fetta
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Posted: 05 August 2008 at 8:52pm | IP Logged Quote Fetta

How can the version of "(If Loving You Is Wrong) I Don't Want To Be Right" by Luther Ingram on the Dick Bartley's On The Radio Volume 5 cd be an "alternate vocal" if it was mastered from vinyl.
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Pat Downey
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Posted: 06 August 2008 at 5:17pm | IP Logged Quote Pat Downey

All stereo versions released to date on compact disc are vinyl transfers. It is my opinion that the stereo vocal take is not the same as the mono vocal take Hence the comment "mastered from vinyl; alternate vocal take"
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Fetta
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Posted: 06 August 2008 at 5:32pm | IP Logged Quote Fetta

Thanks Pat for the clarification.

While we are on the subject of Dick Bartley, I just wanted to address something. First off, I think that Dick Bartley has done an amazing job with all of CDs and he has brought to us many hard to find 45 versions. And it is my understanding that he is a "stickler" at finding these versions. But if that is the case, why are several of the tracks on his CDs, in fact, not the correct 45 versions. (i.e. "Woodstock", "Chapel of Love")

I hope this doesn't soound like a knock against Dick Bartley CD's. Like I said, I think they are great....but was just wondering why he would include these tracks on the CDs.

-Fetta
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Hykker
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Posted: 07 August 2008 at 5:23am | IP Logged Quote Hykker

Fetta wrote:

While we are on the subject of Dick Bartley, I just wanted to address something. First off, I think that Dick Bartley has done an amazing job with all of CDs and he has brought to us many hard to find 45 versions. And it is my understanding that he is a "stickler" at finding these versions. But if that is the case, why are several of the tracks on his CDs, in fact, not the correct 45 versions. (i.e. "Woodstock", "Chapel of Love")

I hope this doesn't soound like a knock against Dick Bartley CD's. Like I said, I think they are great....but was just wondering why he would include these tracks on the CDs.



If it's the Matthew's Southern Comfort "Woodstock" you're referring to, he used the promo single edit of the song with the shortened intro and early fade.

Several of the "promo edits" he's used are pretty good stereo re-creations, but aren't exact. A couple that come to mind are "Susan" by the Buckinghams and "Are You Ready"-Pacific Gas & Electric.

That having been said, it's nice that someone has taken the time & effort to issue these, especially since the appeal is likely to be limited to collectors. Too bad they go out of print so fast.

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Pat Downey
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Posted: 07 August 2008 at 5:33pm | IP Logged Quote Pat Downey

What differences from the dj edit did you find in "Susan" and "Are You Ready" on the Dick Bartley cd's?
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Hykker
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Posted: 07 August 2008 at 6:14pm | IP Logged Quote Hykker

Pat Downey wrote:
What differences from the dj edit did you find in "Susan" and "Are You Ready" on the Dick Bartley cd's?


I'd have to go back & check "Are You Ready", but the edit in "Susan" was noticeably loose. Hard to describe, but edit point is ~1/2 second late. Nit-picky perhaps, but quite noticeable if you're familiar with the promo single.
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Bill Cahill
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Posted: 08 August 2008 at 5:27pm | IP Logged Quote Bill Cahill

On the Dick Bartley CDs:

The "Susan" edit was an edit from the multitrack remixes done for the Legacy CDs, it has that doubling effect near the end that was only on the remix.

Mathews' Southern Comfort was an incorrectly edited for the intro. (It should be a late start, not an edit)

I thought Dick told me that the Pacific Gas and Electric came from a very clean DJ 45 as they didn't have the tape so I think that one is correct.

Dick was trying hard to put out rare stereo or different versions you couldn't find elsewhere, hence some of the stranger versions.
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The Hits Man
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Posted: 11 August 2008 at 9:03am | IP Logged Quote The Hits Man

I'll have to back up Fetta here and also say that many tracks on Dick Bartley's CDs are not the 45 versions. many times, when there is no official stereo mix, he will substitute one, or get an approximation. I know he's a hard-core stereo guy, but it drives me crazy!

Two glaring examples of songs that are not the 45 versions are:
Want Ads - The Honey Cone
Stand By Me - Spyder Turner

Both are from the On The Radio series.

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Pat Downey
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Posted: 12 August 2008 at 5:59pm | IP Logged Quote Pat Downey

Hits Man, which Dick Bartley On The Radio Volume contains "Want Ads" by Honey Cone?
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The Hits Man
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Posted: 13 August 2008 at 8:52pm | IP Logged Quote The Hits Man

My apologies. I'll withdraw that, as it is actually Varese Vintage's Girl Groups's CD. I repeat, it is NOT on a Dick Bartley CD.

However, I will say that it does turn up as an edit of the stereo LP mix everywhere on CD except perhaps one, OOP CD.

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jimct
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Posted: 16 August 2008 at 1:09pm | IP Logged Quote jimct

Pat Downey wrote:
What differences from the dj edit did you find in "Susan" on the Dick Bartley cd's?
Pat, to me the most noticable difference between the DJ edit and the Bartley CD is that at the exact moment of the edit, which removed the "psychedelia", there is what sounds to me to be a drumstick loudly banging a piece of aluminum foil, as a transitional element, which is unique to the 45. As has been indicated earlier, Bartley simply edited the stereo CD version, which is close, but does not include this unique musical element.
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Yah Shure
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Posted: 17 August 2008 at 8:14pm | IP Logged Quote Yah Shure

I just did an A/B comparison between the long (2:48) and edited (2:17) sides of the mono "Susan" DJ 45, and there is a discernable difference in the mixes between the two. It is especially noticeable in the run-up just before the stopping point for the psychedelia. The drumming is crisp and prominent on the (2:48) side, but is quite buried in the mix on the (2:17) side. There is more of a "wall of sound" feel to the (2:17) mix; it's harder to pick out the drumming and the bass.

Because of the mix differences, editing the (2:48) side does not produce the same result as the (2:17) edit. The drum beat at the "love-love-love-love" edit point is quieter and wetter on the (2:17) edit, giving it that "aluminum foil" sound that Jim mentioned. The same drum beat on the (2:48) side sounds more like a normal drum beat. The (2:48) side of the DJ 45 uses the same mix as the commercial 45.

And even the edit on the vinyl (2:17) DJ 45 is a tad late. Tightening it up to match the beat produces a less-jarring edit.
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PhilMH
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Posted: 22 July 2010 at 2:40am | IP Logged Quote PhilMH

Pat Downey wrote:
All stereo versions released to date on compact disc are vinyl transfers. It is my opinion that the stereo vocal take is not the same as the mono vocal take Hence the comment "mastered from vinyl; alternate vocal take"


Hi all,

This is my first post, having signed up to the site over the weekend, and Pat has just registered me for the forum so that I can resurrect this old topic and post what I've found out in the last couple of days!

You may or may not know that Luther Ingram's KoKo sides have been reissued on CD by Ace-Kent in England over the last year or so. Regarding the stereo version of "I Don't Want To Be Right", here's what Ace's Tony Rounce has told me about the version used on the Kent two-on-one of Luther's original two albums:

"It’s the same stereo tape that Varese Sarabande used on the ‘Hard To Find Hits’ CD (can’t remember which volume) and, SO far as I’m aware, it’s the only stereo mix in existence! I am pretty sure that Stax never issued ‘I Don’t Want to Be Right’ in stereo – my promo 45 is mono on both sides and it was in mono on Luther’s Ko Ko album. I like to think I might have noticed if I’d used a version with an alternate vocal, I’m not exactly unfamiliar with the track (LOL)!"

I don't have either the Varese or the Kent CD, so can't comment one way or the other, but I certainly have the original I DON'T WANT TO BE RIGHT lp, with that song in mono as Tony says. So, assuming that both Pat and Tony are right, does anyone here (Pat included) know what lp had the alternate vocal?

I've also emailed Pat some info for other CD's with either that song or "I'll Be Your Shelter", so I imagine that Pat will add them once he's checked them out. I can tell you that the one I have, titled I LIKE THE FEELING on the Urgent!/Ichiban label, has "I Don't Want To Be Right" in mono, with some distinct vinyl clicks and pops!

Phil
Adelaide, not-so-sunny-at-the-moment Australia
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aaronk
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Posted: 22 July 2010 at 7:50am | IP Logged Quote aaronk

Welcome, Phil!
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KentT
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Posted: 24 July 2010 at 8:34am | IP Logged Quote KentT

Note Re: If Loving You Is Wrong (I Don't Want To Be Right). The Stereo version was only on Second pressings of the Koko LP. First pressings of the Koko LP had this track in Mono. All known CD reissues using the Stereo version are needledrops.

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PhilMH
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Posted: 24 July 2010 at 5:17pm | IP Logged Quote PhilMH

Hi KentT,

In that case, there must still have been some first pressings sitting in warehouses in 1977, because that's when I bought mine as a cut-out!   If you have a second pressing, could you post the matrix and/or stamper numbers from the label copy and the dead wax, and I will pass those along to Tony Rounce.

Thanks,

Phil
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KentT
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Posted: 25 July 2010 at 6:21am | IP Logged Quote KentT

The known second pressings came from Florida area cut-out sections. I don't own one, I know someone else on another forum who has one (a transfer of it was used on the Dick Bartley CD). If I can get that information about deadwax and pressing plant who manufactured it, I'll pass it along. On Spyder Turner's "Stand By Me" only the original MGM 45 single has the edit. The 1980's Polydor reissue single has the full LP version (I own both)

Edited by KentT on 25 July 2010 at 6:23am


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PhilMH
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Posted: 03 August 2010 at 2:17am | IP Logged Quote PhilMH

Ok, I now have the Dick Bartley CD, and I am not hearing anything to suggest either an alternate take or a needledrop, but then my stereo system isn't high-end, so maybe it just isn't reproducing what Pat and KentT are hearing. I also suspect that my own auditory equipment might have lost some high-end over the years, too! So gents, what are you hearing that indicates an alternate or a dub?   Also KentT, any luck yet with the label copy and wax scratchings?

Thanks,

Phil
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Pat Downey
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Posted: 03 August 2010 at 8:43pm | IP Logged Quote Pat Downey

On my copy of "On The Radio volume 5" I hear a pop at :35 and surface noise at 1:08 and 2:47. As for the vocal, listen to the line "if loving you is wrong, I don't want to be right" at the end of the song around 3:20 to 3:25. I hear a different pronunciation of the word "wrong" and a longer pause after the word "wrong" on the mono version.
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TomDiehl1
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Posted: 03 August 2010 at 10:14pm | IP Logged Quote TomDiehl1

I believe the LP that was the source for the Dick Bartley CD came from the collection of Charle Blanding who let Dick make a 15ips reel copy of the song back in the 80's.

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