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Subject Topic: Buckinghams-"Kind Of A Drag" Post ReplyPost New Topic
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jimct
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Posted: 24 July 2008 at 3:39pm | IP Logged Quote jimct

My commercial 45, which is mono and confirmed as U.S.A. 860, has a listed time of (2:05) and an actual time of (2:03). I only post this info because current database CDs for this song have run times ranging from (2:02) and (2:08).

Edited by jimct on 24 July 2008 at 6:10pm
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Santi Paradoa
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Posted: 16 February 2019 at 7:34pm | IP Logged Quote Santi Paradoa

CJ:
Here is a thread started over a decade ago on the Buckinghams song you inquired about. It may not answer your question, but it would be ideal to keep all the info regarding this song in one thread. Thanks.

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C J Brown
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Posted: 16 February 2019 at 7:36pm | IP Logged Quote C J Brown

Is the mono USA 45 mix of this Buckinghams hit available on CD? I presume all the DB notes that say original mix refers to the Columbia 45 or LP version/mix?
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KentT
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Posted: 17 February 2019 at 8:48pm | IP Logged Quote KentT

No, must be USA 45 single version. In mono. Stereo mix is
what's on CD, has the horns audible instead of the organ
break. Which was the version on the USA Stereo LP.

Edited by KentT on 17 February 2019 at 8:48pm


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aaronk
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Posted: 18 February 2019 at 8:46pm | IP Logged Quote aaronk

I'm 99.9% certain that the USA mono LP has the same mono mix as
the USA 45. Not sure about the stereo USA mix.

Edited by aaronk on 18 February 2019 at 8:47pm


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C J Brown
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Posted: 19 February 2019 at 5:43pm | IP Logged Quote C J Brown

Sounds like a good track for Eric to tackle. Mono USA 45 or even a mono USA LP if it does not differ from the 45.A needle drop project I presume?
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Steve Carras
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Posted: 20 February 2019 at 10:24pm | IP Logged Quote Steve Carras

My Columbia Hall of Fame reissue says 2:08.

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crapfromthepast
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Posted: 23 November 2019 at 9:48pm | IP Logged Quote crapfromthepast

Mark may be preparing a separate post for this song. Without intending to step on his toes here, I'm just going to present some mastering info for the handful of compilations that I have with the song.

Time-Life's Classic Rock Vol. 5 1967 (1988) is mono and sounds impossibly bad.

Columbia's Pop Classics Of The '60s (1989) is in stereo. I'm not sure what version this is, but during the break, you can hear an echo of the drums from the right channel in the left channel. It sounds mighty odd in headphones. There are differently-EQ'd digital clones on:
  • Sony's Seems Like Yesterday Vol. 6 (1990)
  • Realm's 3-CD Greatest Hits Of The '60s Vol. 1 (1995)
The 1989 pressings of Rhino's Billboard Top R&R Hits 1967 (1989) include a stereo version of the song. [Edit: Mark determined below that this isn't a modern-day remix.] The 1993 rerelease of Billboard Top R&R Hits 1967 replaces this song with "Respect".

Sony's Rock Artifacts Vol. 4 (1991) includes a remix of the song. There are digital clones on:
  • Time-Life's AM Gold Vol. 33 The '60s Generation (2001) - differently'd EQ digital clone
  • Varese Sarabande's Rock And Roll The First 50 Years The Late '60s (2005) - digitally exactly 2.1 dB louder


Edited by crapfromthepast on 26 November 2019 at 6:13am


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MMathews
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Posted: 24 November 2019 at 7:12pm | IP Logged Quote MMathews

Ah yes and good timing, I just came here to add some
info to this song and suggest some database updates.
First I'll list the 4 unique mixes of this song in
order:
1) The U.S.A. Mono Hit 45. (never been on CD)

2) The U.S.A. Stereo LP Mix (on 4 CDs that we know of,
Note: the hit 45 mix is a fold-down of this mix!).

3) The 1969 Columbia Greatest Hits Stereo Mix (this
would be the default mix issued on LP comps for the
next 20 years - and on several early CDs).

4) The 1991 Bob Irwin Remix for Sony/Legacy CDs (this
new mix was an attempt to match the 45 but wasn't
quite the same - this mix issued on many CDs since
1991. First issued on Legacy's "Rock Artifacts Vol 4"
and hits comp "Mercy, Mercy, Mercy")

So the big news is that with some help from a few
fellow board members we discovered the original U.S.A.
stereo mix has been on CD. It is on the CD Ron
mentions above; Columbia's "Pop Classics Of The 60s",
the other 2 Ron mentions below it plus a Sony special
products CD" The Rockin' 60s" ....

So that makes 4 CDs we know of for the original USA
stereo mix. And, FYI the hit 45 was a fold-down of
this mix. I sync'd them together, exact match. The
only thing is the CD releases need to be sped up to
match the 45 speed. Once you do that they run (2:03).
So for these CDs I suggest they keep the label:
(original mix)   .... or if we want even more
descriptive:
(original mix, 45 version but slower)


The CDs in the database labeled "remix" ...well that
is correct but it's the older of 2 different
remixes..so I suggest those should labeled:
(1969 Columbia Greatest Hits Mix).
This mix is easy to spot as it has very little reverb
on the vocals and in the break the horn riffs are
potted up at full volume.

The new mix by Bob Irwin created for Sony Legacy in
1991 was remixed from the 4-track in an attempt to
make a new stereo mix that just like the 45. He made a
loving attempt but still his new mix had a few
differences. Such as: the reverb was not quite the
same and it didn't get much louder toward the end like
the 45 does. And in the horn break, he made the horn
riffs lower, but you can still hear both riffs. On
the 45, the first horn riff is mixed out completely,
then the second riff pots up but still very low, you
can barely hear it.
But I wish Bob had known that all he needed was the
master tape for the USA stereo, which had already been
issued on CD 2 years prior - because we now know that
is indeed the hit 45 mix.

So, I would suggest all CDs with the Bob Irwin mix be
lableled:
(1991 Bob Irwin Remix, which is similar to the 45
version)

PS - the lone MONO CD appearance on the Time-Life CD
Ron mentions above is not not the hit 45 mix. It is a
very-low-fi mono fold-down of the 1969 Columbia
Greatest Hits Mix. It is so bad it almost sounds like
it was recorded from a worn 45 over a phone line.
Avoid.

   

Edited by MMathews on 24 November 2019 at 7:27pm
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crapfromthepast
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Posted: 25 November 2019 at 1:25pm | IP Logged Quote crapfromthepast

Nice work, Mark!

I would add one more version to your list:

5) The 1989 Bill Inglot remix for Rhino's Billboard Top R&R Hits 1967 (only on 1989 pressings of this disc, not on 1993 pressings) [Edit: Mark determined below that this isn't a modern-day remix, but is the 1969 Columbia Greatest Hits version in stereo.]

Edited by crapfromthepast on 26 November 2019 at 6:14am


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MMathews
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Posted: 25 November 2019 at 10:55pm | IP Logged Quote MMathews

With Ron's help I determined the mix on Rhino's
Billboard Top R&R Hits of 1967 is the "1969
Columbia Greatest Hits Mix."
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KentT
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Posted: 26 November 2019 at 7:38pm | IP Logged Quote KentT

Nice work, Mark.

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Paul C
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Posted: 02 December 2019 at 12:04pm | IP Logged Quote Paul C

I can't find any evidence that the original mono mix of "Kind Of A Drag" has been issued since the original U.S.A. label 45 and album. My copy of the Columbia Hall Of Fame reissue 45 is stereo. (It has a grey label and no Collectables logo, which makes it a mid-to-late 1980s pressing.) The reissue gives a date of April 1969, which is when Columbia issued the Greatest Hits album, which was issued only in stereo.

I don't know when Columbia acquired the U.S.A. masters, but the Greatest Hits album appears to have been the first time Columbia issued any of The Buckinghams' U.S.A. material. There are three U.S.A. tracks on Greatest Hits, "Lawdy Miss Clawdy", "I'll Go Crazy", and "Kind Of A Drag". Sundazed has issued the Kind Of A Drag album on CD, but it does not appear that Columbia ever reissued the album after acquiring the masters.

For Varese Sarabande's The Buckinghams: The Complete Hit Singles, Sony claimed that it could not locate the mono tapes, which we know is nonsense (for the Columbia hits at least) because a couple of the mono hits have previously appeared on CD (on Varese Sarabande no less!!). It is entirely possible, however, that Sony does not have the U.S.A. monos.

One final little aside: Dan Belloc, the producer of "Kind Of A Drag", had had a hit in the Toronto area in 1957 with an instrumental called "Flip Flop".
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chicagojoe
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Posted: 05 December 2019 at 6:07pm | IP Logged Quote chicagojoe

The USA 45 version of "Kind Of A Drag" was issued on a compilation CD. "Bob Stroud's Rock n Roll Roots Vol.8"
It came out in 2006 on SRO Productions. I picked it up a few years ago and they did a good job on cleaning it up. The same CD included "People And Me" by New Colony Six which is listed as "first time on CD". I'm pretty sure I picked up my copy from Amazon.
The version of "Kind Of A Drag" on this CD holds up pretty well next to other transfers I have , so I was pretty happy to get a copy of this CD.

Edited by chicagojoe on 05 December 2019 at 6:09pm
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eriejwg
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Posted: 05 December 2019 at 8:25pm | IP Logged Quote eriejwg

Chicagojoe:

Good thing you picked up the CD when you did. It's listed
for sale on Amazon anywhere from 32.00 to nearly 40.00
depending on where you look.

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garye
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Posted: 10 December 2019 at 6:01am | IP Logged Quote garye

I wish I could remember who sent me a MP3 of the 45.
Pretty clean sounding. It fades at 2:01 I think to miss
any turntable rumble at the fade. But otherwise it
sounds pretty clean, although a slight clip on highs in
part of the single.
But for a 50 year old single pretty nice!
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C J Brown
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Posted: 20 December 2019 at 5:56pm | IP Logged Quote C J Brown

I have compared the track found on the 1989 Columbia Pop 60s and the one from 1991 remix on Sundazed "Kind Of A Drag" album CD. The biggest difference I can hear is the echo.Two different types of reverb perhaps? The horns at heard at various times (not heard much on break) during the song are much more easier to hear on the 1991 remix. I find the break featuring the organ to be similar on both. Overall everything is more clear on the 1991 but modern sounding. The Pop 60s mix sounds more dated to my ears.

The liner notes for "Kind Of A Drag" on the Pop 60s disc indicates it is a "digital remix". Same for Mr. Tambourine Man, Red Rubber Ball and More Today Than Yesterday. Mark Wilder gets the remix credits here. Should this version be shown as an additional mix " 1989 remix of the 1969 mix?

I guess I may have to search out the old Columbia Greatest Hits CD to in hopes to hear the "louder horns on the break" version made for the original vinyl LP back in the day. Does anyone know if that CD has that 1969 version of "Kind Of A Drag" untouched by Mark Wilder?

Edited by C J Brown on 21 December 2019 at 7:41am
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AndrewChouffi
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Posted: 22 December 2019 at 9:11am | IP Logged Quote AndrewChouffi

To CJ Brown:

My memory may be hazy, but I seem to recall that when I bought 'Pop Classics Of The 60s' a couple of the tracks labeled 'digital remix' were not remixed at all, but were a clean dub & sounded good anyway..

Maybe somebody here could concur or refute...

Andy
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C J Brown
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Posted: 22 December 2019 at 10:32am | IP Logged Quote C J Brown

Until I get another pre Bob Irwin 1991 remix disc I will not be able to compare the Pop 60s track either. But are you saying Pop 60s sounded the same as the 1969 Columbia mix?

I would imagine what you say is correct about "Drag" not being a remix on the Pop 60s disc. I do not think a 1989 remix would not go unnoticed for all these years.

I still find the reverb being the biggest difference between the Pop 60s mix (whatever it may be) and the 1991 remix. Different as pointed out earlier by Mark.
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MMathews
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Posted: 22 December 2019 at 2:31pm | IP Logged Quote MMathews

I can guarantee my above report is correct. The "Pop
Classics Of The 60s" is the original U.S.A. stereo mix
from the master tape. This mix folded to mono is the hit
45 version. The digital remix credit to Mark Wilder is
incorrect. The first digital remix was Bob Irwin's in
1991.

The 1969 Greatest Hits mix sounds nothing like those 2
mixes.

MM
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