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Todd Ireland
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Pat:
Edtop40 informs me the 45 version of Deep Purple's "Smoke on the Water" runs 3:48. But, according to the 10th edition, the song has a 3:55 run time on the various artist CDs Guitar Rock (Time-Life OPCD-4521) and #1 Radio Hits 1970 - Only Rock 'n Roll - 1974 (JCI 3168). Would you agree these CDs containing the 3:55 length should probably include the comment: (:07 longer than the 45 version)?
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Brian W.
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Does it fade early on the 45 or does it just run faster?
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I get the running time of the 45 to be 3:49 but I will make a note that it runs :06 longer on the cd's you mentioned. There is no speed variation between the 45 and the cd's mentioned above.
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eriejwg
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I already have both the live version and studio version edits on CD, but I thought this image of "Smoke On The Water" on an import Capitol was interesting.
Smoke On The Water - Capitol import 45
How would Capitol have a Warner Bros. track?
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MCT1
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Based on the information at the links below, it looks like Deep Purple was signed to Warner Bros. only in the U.S., Canada and Japan. In the U.K. and most other countries, they were with EMI (their first album came out on EMI's Parlophone label in the U.K.; then they moved to the EMI-owned "progressive" Harvest Records when it started up; then later had their own Purple Records, still handled through EMI). I would surmise that this 45 is from a Latin American country in which 1) EMI controlled their rights and 2) due to American influence, Capitol was EMI's flagship label, so they were put on Capitol. It certainly does look odd to see a Deep Purple 45 on Capitol. I'm struck that the 45 has the same distinctive raised edge around the outside of the label found on 45s pressed by Capitol in the U.S.
I don't know why Deep Purple wasn't on Capitol in the U.S., given the connection to EMI. Their original U.S. label was a small company called Tetragramatton Records, which was co-owned by Bill Cosby. Tetragrammaton folded in 1969, just after Deep Purple's third album came out. W.B. somehow acquired the rights to that album and immediately reissued it, but the ownership of the earlier Tetragramatton material seemed to get murky after that. During the period when Deep Purple was on Tetragramatton in the U.S., they were with Polydor in Canada (based on the info at the above link, they were also on Polydor on Japan). Note that German-based Polydor started a Canadian operation in 1966, but did not open a U.S. branch until 1969. So Polydor may not have been considered a viable option in the U.S. at the time Deep Purple was getting started, though I guess allowing Polydor to handle U.S. licensing could have always been a possibility (in that era, Polydor handled U.K. distribution for Atlantic/Atco, and as an apparent corollary, artists signed to Polydor in the U.K. were sometimes placed on Atco in the U.S.).
http://www.thehighwaystar.com/rosas/jouni/discos/discostu.ht ml
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personnel_and_discography_of_De ep_Purple
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jimct
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MCT1, I haven't researched this, but while Capitol in the U.S. always had the "first crack" to release product from the EMI/Parlophone European operation, they often pass on that option, as they famously did in 1963, by passing on releasing several 1963 Beatles hit U.K. singles. Band management is then free to try to find a U.S. distribution deal, with any interested label, sometimes on a song-by-song basis, or sometimes by entering into a more long-term U.S. deal. Cosby and WB had had a good working relationship for years, as evidenced by both his hit mid 60's comedy albums, and his big 1967 hit single, "Little Ole Man", all on WB. But right around this time, Cosby wanted to support some long-time friends of his, and become the prime investor in a minority-owned, small Philly-area label. I don't know if Cosby's WB deal was up at this exact time, but I do believe WB was very cooperative with Cosby during his new label venture, which I'm sure Cosby very much appreciated. So, when the Tetragrammaton venture was being shut down in 1969, and with the label still owning the U.S. rights to one band still considered "of value" to other U.S. labels, Deep Purple, I think it is reasonable to assume that Cosby probably chose to contact folks he knew about it, obviously at WB, to make them a fair U.S. deal for Deep Purple's future U.S. rights, going forward. I'm sure any revenue he got from it probably helped him retire/settle any leftover financial loose ends from the Tetragrammaton operation, which almost certainly had debts by the end. Please, anybody with more solid knowledge here, please chime in - thanks.
Edited by jimct on 18 June 2008 at 5:21pm
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eriejwg
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Fascinating info so far!
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MCT1
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There was a really interesting article a few issues back in the record collectors' magazine Goldmine describing all of the behind the scenes manuevering to find a U.S. record deal for the Beatles after Capitol had turned them down, and the fight that ensued over the group's early material once Capitol had finally decided to pick them up. The article was written by Beatles expert and author Bruce Spizer (who I believe is also an attorney in his "day job"). A few things that caught my attention:
--At the time, Capitol apparently had a lot of automony in deciding whether it would pick up an artist on a U.K. EMI label for American release. In fact, in cases where they didn't, EMI would sometimes actually try to help the artist secure a deal with another U.S. label, which is what happened in the Beatles' case. In these situations, the parent EMI company was effectively acting in competition with its American subsidiary.
--Vee-Jay lost the rights to the Beatles in the summer of 1963 when it failed to pay EMI royalties on Beatles records it had sold. As the Beatles' early releases had not sold well, the amount of money in question was not significant, although it was part of a larger payment that Vee-Jay owned to EMI on a number of U.K. artists that it had licensed. Spizer notes that EMI also owned money to Vee-Jay at the time, and had the financially troubled Vee-Jay been in a position to challenge EMI's termination of the contract (or, more to the point, had they seen any value in doing so) they may have been able to work something out to keep the Beatles' rights.
--When Beatlemania hit in early 1964, Vee-Jay decided to release Beatles recordings from the tapes they had in their possession, even though their legal counsel advised them that they did not have a strong claim over those recordings (even if Capitol's termination of the contract was perhaps a bit underhanded, it was true that Vee-Jay hadn't paid royalties when they were due) and would probably lose any legal battle initiated by Capitol or EMI. To buy a little time before the inevitable court injunction, Vee-Jay told its key corporate officers to stay out of the office in the days following the release of the first Vee-Jay Beatles record, so that Capitol and EMI would have a hard time finding anyone to serve papers on.
Though not discussed in the article, there were a number of British Invasion-era bands who were on EMI-owned labels in the U.K. but were not on Capitol in the U.S. The Hollies, the Yardbirds, the Dave Clark Five, Gerry & the Pacemakers, and The Animals are all examples, though I'm not sure whether Capitol rejected all of them or if in at least some cases there is another explanation. (In another twist to this, Capitol's Canadian division apparently made its own decisions, and most of the above artists *were* on Capitol in Canada. Capitol also had the Beatles in Canada right from the beginning.) You'd think that by the time Deep Purple came along, they would have learned their lesson, but maybe not....
To Jim's comments about the Bill Cosby connection with Warner Bros., I hadn't thought of that, but I'll bet you're exactly right. It's fun to think how, if things had just gone a little differently, Deep Purple could have been on Capitol in the U.S. (or maybe Harvest, once it started up), or perhaps even Polydor or Atco. Without Cosby's intervention, I guess they could have ended up anywhere after 1969.
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EdisonLite
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In the "Top Pop Singles" book for "Smoke on the Water", it just says "Smoke on the Water" for the A-Side, and "Smoke on the Water (longer version)" for the B-side. No mention of either side being live. I distinctly remember my 45 having a studio version on one side (I believe, the A-side) and a live version on the other side, and it was a commercial single. In the US, were there 2 different commercial 45s, like the one I have and the one described in the Whitburn Pop Singles book?
Making matters even more confusing, growing up on radio in Boston, I heard both the studio and live versions on the radio, both pretty equally. So what version was considered the radio single exactly?
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aaronk
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You are correct, Gordon. See:
https://www.discogs.com/Deep-Purple-Smoke-On-The-Water/relea se/10538448
The record label simply indicates (Edited Version) on both sides, but a closer inspection shows that the 4:34 "Edited Version" is taken from the live album Made In Japan.
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Paul Haney
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EdisonLite wrote:
In the "Top Pop Singles" book for "Smoke on the Water", it just says "Smoke on the
Water" for the A-Side, and "Smoke on the Water (longer version)" for the B-side. No mention of either side
being live. |
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Gordon, you must be looking at an older edition. The current edition (1955-2018) says (live version) for
the B-side.
FWIW, in the Minneapolis/St. Paul market, I mostly heard the studio version in 1973.
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garye
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The version of "Smoke" I have from the singles and EP
collection has times at 3:51. The collection covers
1968-1980 and has all the single edits of most of the
singles the band released at that time , including the
radio edit of "Might Just Take Your Life" from 1974 that
clocks in 3:35. Nice collection.
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Hykker
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EdisonLite wrote:
Making matters even more confusing,
growing up on radio in Boston, I heard both the studio
and live versions on the radio, both pretty equally. So
what version was considered the radio single exactly?
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The studio version is noted as the plug side on promo
copies, but as you noted both sides got airplay. We
played them interchangeably at the small market station
I was at in the summer of '73.
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AndrewChouffi
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Does anyone out there know when the edits first
appeared, anywhere, in stereo?
I ask because I was wondering if the stereo edits were
created later (say by a Bill Inglot) or if they existed
on a promo vinyl or an import 45 back in the day...
Any info or hypotheses are apreciated!
Andy
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garye
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AndrewChouffi wrote:
Does anyone out there know when
the edits first
appeared, anywhere, in stereo?
I ask because I was wondering if the stereo edits were
created later (say by a Bill Inglot) or if they
existed
on a promo vinyl or an import 45 back in the day...
Any info or hypotheses are apreciated!
Andy |
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The edits were done in stereo when the songs were
released in their respective years. All commercial
copies were stereo.
Possibly the first label for Deep Purple,
Tetragrammaton Records might have released the band's
singles in mono, but have no way confirming that.
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eriejwg
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| Posted: 10 September 2020 at 11:23am | IP Logged
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In the list of stereo and mono 45's thread for 1973, Smoke
On The Water is listed as MONO. If there had been stereo
pressings of the 45, I would think it would have been
listed there with a STEREO and MONO notation as it has for
other songs.
The Digital 45 that's been online for years also is mono.
Paging John Pratt! Do you have a stereo pressing?
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eriejwg
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| Posted: 10 September 2020 at 11:37am | IP Logged
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Is it possible that import 45's were stereo? The reason I
ask is that I had an import 45 of Highway Star that was
stereo yet everything released in the U.S. around that
time on 45 for Deep Purple was mono.
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Hykker
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eriejwg wrote:
I had an import 45 of Highway Star that
was
stereo yet everything released in the U.S. around that
time on 45 for Deep Purple was mono. |
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Were commercial copies of "Woman From Tokyo" stereo?
Scans on Discogs show a V1S suffix on the matrix # for
it. The short version on my promo (which is mono) has a
V1 suffix.
I thought I had a commercial copy of this, but it seems
to be misfiled.
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Yah Shure
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garye wrote:
| The edits were done in stereo when the songs were released in their respective years. All commercial copies were stereo. |
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This is not correct. All U.S. stock 45s of "Smoke On The Water" were identical to the U.S. promo 45: in mono on both the studio and live sides. I have both Santa Maria vinyl and Terre Haute styrene stock 45s and they are all mono. The same song pairing remained in mono throughout SOTW's entire run in the WB Back To Back reissue 45 series.
eriejwg wrote:
| Is it possible that import 45's were stereo? The reason I ask is that I had an import 45 of Highway Star that was stereo yet everything released in the U.S. around that time on 45 for Deep Purple was mono. |
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John, I can't speak for SOTW import 45s, but oddly enough, the U.S. WB stock 45s of "Highway Star" actually were stereo. "Lazy" had also been issued earlier in stereo on U.S. stock 45s.
Hykker wrote:
| Were commercial copies of "Woman From Tokyo" stereo? Scans on Discogs show a V1S suffix on the matrix # for it. The short version on my promo (which is mono) has a V1 suffix. |
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Yes, they were in stereo, at least as far as the original Warner Brothers 7672 release. I don't have the second issue (WB 7737) from later on in 1973, but the stock 7737 labels on 45cat do carry the the same stereo V1S suffix.
garye wrote:
| Possibly the first label for Deep Purple, Tetragrammaton Records might have released the band's singles in mono, but have no way confirming that. |
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DJ and stock copies of the five U.S. Deep Purple 45s released by Tetragrammaton mirrored each other:
"Hush": mono
"Kentucky Woman": mono
"River Deep-Mountain High": stereo
"Emmaretta": mono
"Hallelujah (I Am The Preacher)": stereo
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eriejwg
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Hykker wrote:
Were commercial copies of "Woman From Tokyo" stereo?
Scans on Discogs show a V1S suffix on the matrix # for
it. The short version on my promo (which is mono) has a
V1 suffix.
I thought I had a commercial copy of this, but it seems
to be misfiled.
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I have a 45 dub of Woman From Tokyo from Jim (RIP) that
is mono. John Pratt posted back in 2010, "John, my
commercial copy, which is stereo, has a listed time of
(2:56) on the label. This is the original 45 issue on
Warner Brothers 7672, with the olive green label, which
peaked at #80 in April, 1973.
I don't have the September '73 reissue on Warner 7737
which peaked at #60, but since that one followed "Smoke
On The Water," it would have been on the "Burbank" palm
tree WB label.
Just gave it a listen, and although the truncated fade
seemingly ends at (2:55), the song continues at a barely
audible level until (2:56)."
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Topic: "Smoke on the Water" - Deep Purple
