Top 40 Music on Compact Disc: "Maneater"

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Topic: "Maneater" - Hall & Oates

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sriv94
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Posted: 10 May 2008 at 7:34pm \| IP Logged

For the editors in the room, any way to extrapolate the DJ edit of "Maneater" from the commercial single, or are they two completely different mixes?

I'll hang up and listen for my answer. :)

Edited by sriv94 on 10 May 2008 at 7:34pm

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aaronk
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Posted: 10 May 2008 at 7:52pm \| IP Logged

Yes, it can be done. The promo 45 edit is two edits and an early fade, I believe. One edit is on the intro, and the other is in the middle of the horn solo. If I get a moment in the next couple days, I'll try to post the info. Feel free to send me a reminder if I forget :)

sriv94
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Posted: 10 May 2008 at 7:54pm \| IP Logged

Will do. I was trying to go by hazy memory, but I could never get either edit to sound right (especially in the sax break).

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eriejwg
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Posted: 10 May 2008 at 8:11pm \| IP Logged

There's a corner record shop here, and every once in a while I find a gem. Managed to pick up a near mint DJ 45 of this song 2 years ago for $2. :)

Doug, will send u a copy for evaluation.

sriv94
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Posted: 10 May 2008 at 8:34pm \| IP Logged

John indeed shot it my way. As I told him in E-mail, not sure why I had such trouble making this edit (when you hear the finshed product it seems so simple).

Thanks for everyone's help.

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Bill Cahill
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Posted: 12 May 2008 at 5:33pm \| IP Logged

While you can physically make the short DJ edit you may have to add a piece of reverb to the drum hit on the first edit to get the real DJ version. I created it once and the only way to get it to match the real DJ edit was to add that reverb.

Fetta
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Posted: 03 August 2011 at 8:27pm \| IP Logged

Does anyone remember if the promo is much slower than the 45? Making my edits and comparing against my promo 45 version. The version I am using to edit is from the import "Starting All Over Again...Best Of" and seems to be running pretty quickly as compared to the promo?

crapfromthepast
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Posted: 04 August 2011 at 4:42am \| IP Logged

The promo 45 is the same speed as the commercial 45 and the
LP.

The version on Starting All Over Again runs about
1.7% too fast. I have that collection, and while it's got
a great track selection, be aware that some of the tracks
run too fast.

Search for other posts by crapfromthepast

Fetta
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Posted: 04 August 2011 at 4:35pm \| IP Logged

Thanks so much for that info. I couldn't understand why it was so much faster. I will use another source for my Hall & Oates edits.

-Jeff

chendagam
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Posted: 04 August 2011 at 5:17pm \| IP Logged

Does this version appear on CD anywhere?

aaronk
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Posted: 06 August 2011 at 4:43pm \| IP Logged

Bill Cahill wrote:

I just went back and compared my promo 45 to the edit I created, and I didn't find it necessary to add any reverb. Are there perhaps two different promo 45s?

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Bill Cahill
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Posted: 07 August 2011 at 4:00am \| IP Logged

I might have edited it in a way that needed reverb. You may have found a more accurate edit. I doubt that there are two promos. At least the way I edited it, it sounded to me like the drum hit at the first edit needed some reverb.

Fetta
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Posted: 25 August 2012 at 11:53am \| IP Logged

crapfromthepast wrote:

The version on Starting All Over Again runs about
1.7% too fast. I have that collection, and while it's got
a great track selection, be aware that some of the tracks
run too fast.

Working on my Hall & Oates edits (mostly are just early fades of the LP lengths)...... Since the many of the tracks on the "Starting All Over Again" collection may run too fast.....Is there a domestic release that does a better job at keeping the original speeds of the songs?

("Wait For Me", "How Does It Feel To Be Back", "Did It In A Minute", "Some Things Are Better....." and "Missed Opportunity" are the ones that I need to create)

-Jeff

Hykker
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Posted: 25 August 2012 at 6:39pm \| IP Logged

I have 2 promo copies of this, and they're both white-label, as opposed to the yellow-ish tan that most other RCA promos from that era are. Is everyone else's copy the same way?

Yah Shure
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Posted: 25 August 2012 at 8:57pm \| IP Logged

Hykker wrote:

I have 2 promo copies of this, and they're both white-label, as opposed to the yellow-ish tan that most other RCA promos from that era are. Is everyone else's copy the same way?

My 1978 DJ 45 of "I Don't Wanna Lose You" is the same: standard RCA promo label design, but with a white label.

crapfromthepast
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Posted: 17 March 2013 at 2:04pm \| IP Logged

Dug into this one in more detail. There are many, many Hall and Oates collections out there, and many more compilations that feature the song. On the whole, the song sounds excellent on most of them.

First, let's rule out the discs to avoid:

Realm's Gold And Platinum Vol. 1 (1986) - fades about 15 seconds early
RCA's H20 - missing the initial attack of the first beat of the song
Warner Special Products' 2-CD Night Beat (1988; balance is a little off on the fadeout)
Razor & Tie's 3-CD Awesome '80s (1994; uses same analog transfer as Night Beat)
Big Ear Music's Only In The 80's Vol. 2 (1995, and mastered by Steve Hoffman, no less!) - missing the initial attack of the first beat of the song
Starting All Over Again (1997) - missing the initial attack of the first beat of the song, uses high-generation source tapes, and runs too fast!

Next, some discs that will do in a pinch, but are a little too loud or have a little added compression:

Time-Life's Sounds Of The Eighties Vol. 5 1982 (1994; digital clone of Billboard Top Hits 1982 but with added compression)
Back To Back (1998) - half Hall and Oates songs, half Rick Springfield songs!
Universal's More Pure '80s (2000; digital clone of Billboard Top Hits 1982 but with added compression)
Rhino's 8-CD Like Omigod (2002)
2-CD Ultimate (2004)

The best-sounding single-artist H&O collection (for "Maneater" might very well be the earliest: Greatest Hits Rock 'N Soul Part 1 (copyright 1983) - the levels are low (about 5 dB of headroom on this song), but it really sounds terrific here. I think the collections Looking Back (1991) and the 3-CD Legendary (2002) might use the same analog transfer as Rock 'N Soul, but the high-end is blunted just a little bit on these two collections.

After weeding all of these out, I'm left with three sources, all of which sound superb:

Greatest Hits Rock 'N Soul Part 1
Rhino's Billboard Top Hits 1982 (1992)
RCA's Nipper's Greatest Hits The '80s (1990)

You really can't go wrong with any of these three, or with Simitar's Number Ones Eighties Rock (1998; same analog transfer as Nipper).

If I had to pick the best-sounding source, I'd vote for Rhino's Billboard Top Hits 1982 (1992), just because it's very inexpensive nowadays, and the rest of the tracks also sound terrific.

The commercial 45 is the same as the LP version. The promo 45 version can be edited down from the commercial 45/LP version. Here are instructions, based on the timings from Billboard Top Hits 1982:

Segment 1:
32 beats long
Extends from 0:00.0 to 0:11.0 in in both the promo 45 edit and the LP version
This segment ends on a downbeat.

Remove the 64 beats of the LP version from 0:11.0 to 0:32.6.

Segment 2:
Extends from 0:11.0 to 2:42.2 of the promo 45 edit
Extends from 0:32.6 to 3:03.8 of the LP version
This segment begins and ends on a downbeat.

Remove the 32 beats of the LP version from 3:03.8 to 3:14.6.

Segment 3:
Extends from 2:42.2 to 3:28.1 of the promo 45 edit
Extends from 3:14.6 to 4:00.5 of the LP version
This segment begins on a downbeat and ends a downbeat (falls on the last syllable of the world "maneater" sung by the background vocals).

Fade is 64 beats long, begins and ends on the last syllable of the world "maneater" sung by the background vocals
Extends from 3:06.5 to 3:28.1 of the promo 45 edit
Extends from 3:38.9 to 4:00.5 of the LP version

Your mixdown will run 3:28.1, with edits at 0:11.0 and 2:42.2 and a 64-beat fade from 3:06.5 to 3:28.1.

(My counter seems to be broken; if I can find another working counter, I'll fill in the beat counts above.)

Edited by crapfromthepast on 18 March 2013 at 7:25am

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chendagam
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Posted: 17 October 2014 at 6:50pm \| IP Logged

I love it when I go back to something like this thread, see a post by someone and say to myself "yeah I was wondering that too." Only to discover that it was myself that made the post 3 years ago! So my question still goes unanswered: Does the DJ edit appear on CD anywhere?

aaronk
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Posted: 17 October 2014 at 9:17pm \| IP Logged

Very few, if any, of the Hall & Oates promo-only edits have appeared on CD (other than some custom edited versions or vinyl dubs on TM Century GoldDiscs).

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Aaron Kannowski
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Ron S
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Posted: 07 February 2019 at 8:20am \| IP Logged

By any chance does the 45 version run a bit faster than the LP?

David Pro
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Posted: 23 September 2020 at 2:11pm \| IP Logged

There is a Japanese CD titled
Best of Daryl Hall & John
Oates released in 2015 which is
listed on Discogs and contains a
version of "Maneater" running 3:26.

https://www.discogs.com/Daryl-Hall-
John-Oates-Best-Of-Daryl-%20Hall-
John-%20Oates/release/12830709

So this Japanese compilation would
the first H&O compilation to
include the promo 45 edit of
"Maneater". Can anyone confirm
this?

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