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Subject Topic: "Have You Seen Her" - Chi-Lites Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Todd Ireland
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Posted: 27 July 2007 at 3:11pm | IP Logged Quote Todd Ireland

Based on information provided in the database, it can be deducted that the 45 and LP of The Chi-Lites' "Have You Seen Her" run 5:08. Given that this song became a big hit in 1971, I suspect most radio programmers back then would have deemed this run time too lengthy for a Top 40 format. That said, do any of our esteemed veteran DJs and promo 45 experts know if a shorter edit or length of "Have You Seen Her" was supplied to radio stations, especially on the AM side? If so, what is the promo 45 run time(s)?

Edited by Todd Ireland on 27 July 2007 at 3:13pm


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BillCahill
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Posted: 28 July 2007 at 6:17am | IP Logged Quote BillCahill

I have searched high and low for an edit on that one but I don't remember hearing one, and I have yet to find one. Early fades at radio or home made edits are all that I am aware of. DJ copies that I have seen are full length. I'm still looking though.
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bwolfe
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Posted: 25 January 2013 at 6:56am | IP Logged Quote bwolfe

I thought of this old topic today when I heard this song.
Wasn't there a radio edit that took out all the speaking parts? Maybe I'm imaging this.

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jimct
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Posted: 25 January 2013 at 7:38am | IP Logged Quote jimct

bwolfe, are you asking here is if a promo 45 "radio edit" ever existed as an
instrumental? (By you saying "radio edit that took out all the speaking
parts?") Personally, I can't imagine why Brunswick would ever create such
a version. Why would radio want one? And even if the label was going for
a "Soulful Strut, redux" (which removed Barbara Acklin's vocals from a
1968 45 release called "Am I The Same Girl"), the label added piano to the
Acklin instrumental track, prior to its 45 release.) The answer: No

Did you mean to ask the opposite? As in, "Wasn't there a radio edit that
took out all the instrumental parts? The answer: No

Both my promo and stock 45s include the same version.

Any song running over 5:00 in 1971 would surely be a candidate for
creation of a possible "in-house radio edit version." However, I have never
heard one.
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bitman
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Posted: 25 January 2013 at 10:02am | IP Logged Quote bitman

I presume that bwolfe is referring to one of the narritive sections...perhaps the one at about the 3:50 mark. After that narrative, at about the 4:15 mark, the song is basically one long fadeout to 5:08, so it could be dumped most anytime after that
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Hykker
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Posted: 26 January 2013 at 9:09am | IP Logged Quote Hykker

I do remember hearing a version of this where the spoken
narrative at the beginning was shortened. This was on a
station that used one of the Drake-Chenault formats
("Solid Gold" I think), so I suspect that it was a D-C
edit. There were many custom edits in that format.

There were a lot of songs in the early-mid 70s like this
one that had what I called the "infinite fade"...made it
easy to backtime to network news.
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KentT
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Posted: 19 February 2013 at 7:17pm | IP Logged Quote KentT

The Brunswick DJ 45 is full length and Stereo. Flip side is identical to a stock copy. Checked several station archives in depth to find out.

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Bwci Bo
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Posted: 24 September 2014 at 5:53pm | IP Logged Quote Bwci Bo

Over half of the database entries for this song state "contains extra instrumentation not found on the 45 or LP".

Can someone please tell me what and where this extra instrumentation is, please? My only copy of this song is lifted from a CD that is not listed in the database and I am trying to identify whether it's the correct 45 version or not.

Thanks in advance.
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Yah Shure
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Posted: 24 September 2014 at 6:44pm | IP Logged Quote Yah Shure

Bwci Bo wrote:
Can someone tell me what and where this extra instrumentation is, please?


Listen to the first verse narration:

One month ago today
I was happy as a lark
But now I go for walks
To the movies maybe to the park


You know that fuzz guitar during the intro? On the 45 and LP version, it stops playing just before the beginning of this verse.

On the "extra instrumentation" version, the fuzz guitar plays all the way through the above four lines, although it gradually bows out during the fourth one, then is silent for the remainder of the verse.

Edited by Yah Shure on 24 September 2014 at 6:55pm
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Bwci Bo
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Posted: 24 September 2014 at 7:03pm | IP Logged Quote Bwci Bo

Thanks Yah Sure.

Is the fuzz guitar gone completely during the first verse narration? Or is it just mixed down lower, yet still audible?

I've had a listen to a couple of vinyl 45s on YouTube and the guitar is still present on those. Unless I am missing something here?
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Yah Shure
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Posted: 24 September 2014 at 8:08pm | IP Logged Quote Yah Shure

Bwci Bo wrote:
Is the fuzz guitar gone completely during the first verse narration?


Yes. It is completely gone before the word "one" is uttered.

Bwci Bo wrote:
Or is it just mixed down lower, yet still audible?


What you're describing here would actually be the "extra instrumentation" version.


Here's the 45/LP version* without any fuzz guitar during the first verse:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mKAp_CBnsc


And here's the "extra instrumentation" version with the subdued fuzz guitar playing (in the left channel) through the first four lines of the first verse:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVYxKRXDT2I


* = At least on my vinyl copies, the channels are reversed between the 45 and LP. The fuzz guitar during the intro is in the right channel (with the delayed reverb in the left) on the Brunswick stock 45 (as confirmed in the youtube clip with the 45 label shown), but it's in the left channel (with the delayed reverb in the right) on the Brunswick LP (For God's Sake) Give More Power To The People. There seems to be more than enough fuzziness to go around!

Edited by Yah Shure on 24 September 2014 at 8:17pm
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aaronk
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Posted: 24 September 2014 at 8:37pm | IP Logged Quote aaronk

For the record, I hear absolutely no fuzz guitar on the MC Hammer version ;-)

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Bwci Bo
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Posted: 24 September 2014 at 9:01pm | IP Logged Quote Bwci Bo

The examples were really helpful. I can hear the difference between the two very clearly now.

My sole copy appears to be the version with extra instrumentation.

Thanks for your help, Yah Sure! I really appreciate it.

aaronk wrote:
For the record, I hear absolutely no fuzz guitar on the MC Hammer version ;-)

*chuckle*
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Yah Shure
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Posted: 24 September 2014 at 9:41pm | IP Logged Quote Yah Shure

Bwci Bo: Glad to help!

Aaron: You know, upon closer examination, I'm hearing MC Hammer in the middle channel of both the Brunswick stock 45 and LP versions. Would that technically be extra extra "instrumentation" or would it...

Let me listen again.



Oops, sorry. It was just the tinnitus. ;)



Edited by Yah Shure on 24 September 2014 at 9:41pm
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eriejwg
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Posted: 25 September 2014 at 11:16pm | IP Logged Quote eriejwg

In every copy of the 45/LP version on CD I've heard,
right before the narration, "one month ago today" The
narration starts in the right channel "one month.." then
the full narration is centered starting with the "one
month ago today...

Was this a mastering error? False cue for the beginning
of the narration? Was it like that on the 45? Am I
crazy, lol? (wait, don't answer the last question.)
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Yah Shure
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Posted: 26 September 2014 at 5:49am | IP Logged Quote Yah Shure

eriejwg wrote:
In every copy of the 45/LP version on CD I've heard,
right before the narration, "one month ago today" The
narration starts in the right channel "one month.." then
the full narration is centered starting with the "one
month ago today...

Was this a mastering error?


No.

eriejwg wrote:
False cue for the beginning of the narration?



Could be. I've always thought it sounded like tape bleed-through.

eriejwg wrote:
Was it like that on the 45?



Yes, it's on both the Brunswick 45 and the original (For God's Sake)... LP.

eriejwg wrote:
Am I crazy, lol? (wait, don't answer the last question.)


A little late to be pleading the fifth, don't you think? :)
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crapfromthepast
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Posted: 31 December 2018 at 12:06pm | IP Logged Quote crapfromthepast

I think that the "extra instrumentation" versions may actually be the UK 45 version.

Here's a YouTube video that shows the UK 45 and plays the "extra instrumentation" version with vinyl artifacts. The video doesn't show the needle being dropped on the actual Brunswick 45 from the UK, but at least the vinyl artifacts show that the "extra instrumentation" was released on vinyl somewhere.

Here's another YouTube video that shows that the "extra instrumentation" version appears on a US 45. It's a US rerelease on Eric Records, with the Eric logo at 9 o'clock and the Brunswick label at 12 o'clock.

I'll trace the mastering history.

(possibly) UK 45 version (about 5:09)

The (possibly) UK 45 version is in stereo, with the opening fuzz guitar note being primarily in the left channel. At 0:30, after the line "one month ago today", there is a prominent ascending fuzz guitar riff in the left channel.

The first appearance on CD is probably on Sony's Seems Like Yesterday Vol. 1 (1989). This disc has the left and right channels reversed, fades early to 4:55, and is compressed around -6 dB. There's a digital clone on Madacy's Rock On 1971 (1996), which is digitally exactly 1.5 dB louder. Avoid both of these.

The first proper appearance on CD is Rhino's Billboard Top R&B Hits 1971 (1990). It sounds great here - excellent source tapes, nice dynamic range, full EQ, and no evidence of noise reduction. The same analog transfer is used on:
  • Time-Life's Superhits Vol. 10 1971 (1991) - left/right channels reversed
  • Time-Life's AM Gold Vol. 6 1971 RE-1 (1991) - left/right channels reversed
  • Heartland/Warner Special Products' 2-CD Night Songs (1994)
  • JCI's Only Soul 1970-1974 (1996) - left/right channels reversed and hastens the fade
  • Time-Life's Solid Gold Soul Vol. 6 1971 (1996)
Time-Life's Sounds Of The Seventies Vol. 12 1971 Take Two (1990) uses a different analog transfer of the same source tape as Billboard, and also sounds quite nice.

Rhino's Didn't It Blow Your Mind Vol. 6 (1991) runs 1.2% too fast and fades early, even accounting for the speed error. Not sure what happened here to warrant a speed error and an early fade, but here it is. The same analog transfer is used on these Rhino promo CDs:
  • Didn't It Blow Your Mind Vols. 6-10 Sampler (1991, PRO2 90070)
  • Didn't It Blow Your Mind Vols. 1-20 Sampler (1995, PRCD 7136)
US 45 version (about 5:08)

The US 45 is stereo, with the opening fuzz guitar note being primarily in the right channel. At 0:30, after the line "one month ago today", there is no fuzz guitar.

The first appearance of the US 45 version on CD is on Rhino's Chi-Lites Greatest Hits (1992). It sounds great here - excellent source tapes, nice dynamic range, full EQ, and no evidence of noise reduction. The same analog transfer is used on:
  • Rhino's cheapie Seventies Smash Hits Vol. 5 (1993)
  • Rhino's Billboard Hot Soul Hits 1971 (1995) - digitally identical
  • Rhino's promo Billboard Sampler (1995, PRCD 7135) - digitally exactly 0.72 dB quieter
  • Time-Life's 2-CD Body And Soul Vol. 4 Night Moves (1998)
My recommendations:

For the (possibly) UK 45 version, go with Rhino's Billboard Top R&B Hits 1971 (1990).

For the US 45 version, go with Rhino's Chi-Lites Greatest Hits (1992) or Rhino's Billboard Hot Soul Hits 1971 (1995).

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Bill Cahill
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Posted: 01 January 2019 at 5:00am | IP Logged Quote Bill Cahill

Does anybody have "The Chi-Lites Greatest Hits" from 1972? I'm wondering if the extra fuzz guitar originated from
that issue.
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AndrewChouffi
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Posted: 01 January 2019 at 10:01am | IP Logged Quote AndrewChouffi

To Ron & Bill:

I do not own the first 'Greatest Hits' LP from '72 with sixteen tracks.

But I do own the different 1983 'Greatest Hits' vinyl LP with ten tracks. This contains the "extra fuzz guitar" version.

It was the first time I had ever heard it, although it certainly could have existed prior.

Andy

Edited by AndrewChouffi on 02 January 2019 at 9:19am
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sriv94
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Posted: 15 November 2022 at 8:42pm | IP Logged Quote sriv94

KentT wrote:
The Brunswick DJ 45 is full length and Stereo. Flip side is identical to a stock copy. Checked several station
archives in depth to find out.


So just to clarify, there is a US promo version on 45cat that has a listed time of (3:41). Whether that's actual I do not know. Is (3:41)
the listed time on your promo, Kent?

Edited by sriv94 on 15 November 2022 at 8:43pm


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