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crapfromthepast
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Posted: 02 July 2007 at 6:01am | IP Logged Quote crapfromthepast

I just found that there are two different mixes of this song, which is a favorite of mine from the late '80s.

The first version is the US 45 version. On the intro, the only percussion is a tamborine on the 4-beats (count 1-2-3-4), which is centered between left/right.

My US promo 45 has "STVR 51458-1" in the deadwax on both sides, has "3:52" printed on the label and runs about 3:53. The label says "Produced by Dave Bascombe" and has no remix credit. There is a 1987 copyright credit on the label. I was in college radio when this came out, and it arrived in the mail from Virgin on May 5, 1987 (Lucky for me, I wrote the date on the inside of the picture sleeve.) I don't have the commercial 45 or the LP, but I suspect that this version was on both of those as well.

This 45 version appears on:

Modern Rock - Lost Hits of the Mid '80s (Time-Life R828-15, released 2001; I don't like the mastering, which is extremely compressed/maximized)
Smash Hits Party 88 (Chrysalis/Dover [UK] CCD 5, 1988)
The "A" List Disc 36 (Swaitek a/v, 1994)

The second version is a remix, with the same length. On the intro, there's a rim shot on the 2-beat (count 1-2-3-4), and a tamborine on the 4-beat in only the right channel.

I believe that this remix was done by Paul Staveley O'Duffy, according to some online sources, and I also believe that this remix was the British hit version. While the song was only a modest hit here in the US, it hit #3 in the UK in 1988.

From the notes of my Smash Hits CD, "In 1987, 'Mary's Prayer' was released twice without success but when released once more and - shazam! - became an enormous hit."

This remix appears on:

Now That's What I Call Music 12 (1988)
Now 1988 (Virgin EMI Polygram [UK] 8 27074 2, released 1993; excellent mastering, terrific levels and EQ)
Now 1988 The Millennium Series (Virgin EMI Polygram [UK] 5 20277 2, released 1999; mastered too loud - some clipping)

The Now CDs give a copyright credit of 1988 for the song, as opposed to 1987 for the other CDs. I don't think this remix ever appeared in the US.

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EdisonLite
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Posted: 02 July 2007 at 9:38am | IP Logged Quote EdisonLite

This brings up an interesting issue -- if a mix is only available outside the US, I don't think Pat takes it into account in the database. For instance, he remarks about the single and album versions of "Love Is in the Air" by John Paul Young (which are different in the US); however, in Young's native Australia, the album version is the same as the single. (They lengthened the song for the US album.) However, I never brought this to Pat's attention because that's an album outside the US and, I assumed, not relevant to the database. I assume the same is true of foreign mixes. Pat, can you clarify this for us? If a mix does not exist in the US on CD, LP, or cassette, would it even be mentioned in the database-- an example being this "Mary's Prayer" mix that only exists outside the U.S. -- and even the CDs with the UK mix (those '80s Now CDs) were never released here.

My feeling is if the UK mix was used on, say, a Rhino (or any US) CD, there should be a comment next to it saying "UK mix", or maybe even "not the single or album version". But otherwise, it probably wouldn't be referenced.

And don't get me wrong, crapfromthepast, I think it's nice and useful that you posted this info, especially for anyone who likes the song and now has learned of another mix they want to track down. But based on how Pat chooses not to include foreign-only CD releases in the database, my guess would be he feels the same way about foreign-only mixes.

Edited by EdisonLite on 02 July 2007 at 9:39am
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edtop40
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Posted: 02 July 2007 at 10:35am | IP Logged Quote edtop40

anytime the 45 version is available on an import, i'm sure most of us would like to know about it.....

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EdisonLite
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Posted: 02 July 2007 at 2:57pm | IP Logged Quote EdisonLite

Absolutely. But you're talking about the US 45 version.

If the US 45 version is available on US CDs, and a version that was never released in the US on 45 or LP (or even CD) is available on foreign CDs, that's a different situation.

For instance, if there are 1000 versions of top 40 hits that were never released in the US on 45 or LP or CD, but these alternate mixes (i.e. foreign single versions) were available in foreign countries, how many people would want to track down those 1000 versions that were never released here? I suppose fans of a certain artist might want to track down a few but I think the focus of Pat's book and database is in regards to the US singles and LPs we grew up with.

Edited by EdisonLite on 02 July 2007 at 3:00pm
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Pat Downey
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Posted: 02 July 2007 at 7:22pm | IP Logged Quote Pat Downey

The remix mentioned above as appearing on Now That's What I Call Music 12 does not appear on the U.S. version of this cd so as far as I know CFTP must be referencing an import version of this cd.

If I do come across a cd that has a foreign single version such as "I'll Be There" by Gerry And The Pacemakers I will enter that comment in the database if it is called to my attention. If a song is "neither the 45 nor LP version" I will not go out of my way to figure out if it is a British, German, French, Austalian, Canadian.....version.

Trying to keep up with the domestic cd releases is a big enough task and I am not interested in trying to track down import cd's and match the content to foreign 45 or LP versions as it is just too costly and time consuming.

Edited by Pat Downey on 19 January 2009 at 6:17pm
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crapfromthepast
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Posted: 02 July 2007 at 8:36pm | IP Logged Quote crapfromthepast

I can understand why you wouldn't want to go deliberately hunting down the import CDs for the database, but I see no harm in posting the info here in the forum. I have quite a few import and promo collections, and they're fairly prized among the '80s collectors out there.

Sorry, I should have clarified that the Now 12 CD was the UK version of the series, which was many years before the Now series was launched here in the US.
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Todd Ireland
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Posted: 03 July 2007 at 10:23pm | IP Logged Quote Todd Ireland

Excellent work documenting the differences between the "hit" version and the remix of "Mary's Prayer", crapfromthepast (and being an audiophile myself, I do find your CD sound quality descriptions very useful). Once Pat updates the database, it'll be interesting to see which CDs contain the hit version and which do not.

Meanwhile, domestic CD appearances of the song to date run 3:46-3:53. Crap has documented that the promo 45 runs 3:53. Judging by the CD release of Danny Wilson's parent album Meet, the LP run time for "Mary's Prayer" is also 3:53. Can anyone confirm the actual commercial 45 time to see if it perhaps resembles the shorter 3:46 length that has frequently appeared on CD?

Edited by Todd Ireland on 03 July 2007 at 10:24pm
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jimct
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Posted: 04 July 2007 at 2:55am | IP Logged Quote jimct

Todd, my 1987 commercial 45 has a listed time of (3:52) and an actual time of (3:53). The last note of the song lingers on forever, for about :10-:11 seconds. Perhaps an arbitrary "early dump" of this long last note, by some CD mastering engineer somewhere, is responsible for that (3:46) CD length. This could've easily been achieved without sounding "atrocious" to the ear. But to us mega-sticklers here on the Board, however, that possible action would be catagorized as just plain WRONG!   :)
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Todd Ireland
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Posted: 04 July 2007 at 10:17am | IP Logged Quote Todd Ireland

LOL! Hear, hear... Down with the "early dumpers"!

So it appears official then that 3:53 is the correct run time across the board (45/LP/DJ).

Question for crapfromthepast (or anyone else who might know), does the remixed version of "Mary's Prayer" also run approximately 3:53 or does it run a different length?
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elcoleccionista
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Posted: 04 July 2007 at 10:30am | IP Logged Quote elcoleccionista

I can check its length from the Now 1988 UK double CD at home in the evening, if it's still of use.
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elcoleccionista
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Posted: 05 July 2007 at 2:39pm | IP Logged Quote elcoleccionista

The time on that one is 3:46 minutes.
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Todd Ireland
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Posted: 05 July 2007 at 8:25pm | IP Logged Quote Todd Ireland

For what it's worth, I have "Mary's Prayer" on the various artist CD From the Heart - Pop Love Songs Volume Two (EMI Music Special Markets 98912). Based on crapfromthepast's aforementioned description, it sounds like the "hit" version is on this CD and runs at the correct length of 3:53. I'm also happy to report that the sound quality is excellent with terrific looking audio levels when viewed on Adobe Audition digital editing software! This CD is now out-of-print, but used copies can easily be found on retail websites like Amazon and half.com.
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crapfromthepast
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Posted: 05 June 2008 at 7:47pm | IP Logged Quote crapfromthepast

I found a copy of the original UK CD release of Meet Danny Wilson (Virgin CDV2419, released 1987). It's extra cool because the jewel box is smooth on the top and bottom, like the so-called European "target" releases from WEA.

The version of "Mary's Prayer" runs 3:53 and is the same as the US 45 - the un-remixed version that wasn't a hit in the UK.

FYI - The version on Smash Hits 88 is based on the mastering for Meet Danny Wilson but with a different EQ and a level change. I prefer the sound on Meet Danny Wilson.
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eriejwg
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Posted: 05 June 2008 at 8:31pm | IP Logged Quote eriejwg

My digital copy from Napster is from Meet Danny Wilson and runs 2:53 too.
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bwolfe
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Posted: 06 June 2008 at 6:12am | IP Logged Quote bwolfe

The only disc that I've found with the 45 version of "Mary's Prayer" is a Virgin Records sampler released to radio that also included the short
version of T'Pau's "Heart and Soul".
Tracks from Cutting Crew, Gary Moore and The Other Ones appeared on this sampler.

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edtop40
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Posted: 19 January 2009 at 12:48pm | IP Logged Quote edtop40

my commercial 45 issued as virgin 99465 states a run time on the label as 3:52 but actually runs 3:53 and the cd version below


(S) (3:53) Virgin 90596 Meet   


tracks into the following song, so you'll need to fade out the last 0:02 from 3:52-3:54, to replicate the exact correct 45 version....

Edited by edtop40 on 19 January 2009 at 8:30pm


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Pat Downey
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Posted: 19 January 2009 at 6:10pm | IP Logged Quote Pat Downey

I didn't recall "Mary's Prayer" tracking into the next selection on the cd "Meet" so I pulled out my copy and found that indeed it does not track into the next selection HOWEVER I also noticed that my copy of this cd is an import (shame on me for having an import in my library!). If anyone wishes to trade a US copy for my UK copy let me know.
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edtop40
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Posted: 19 January 2009 at 8:30pm | IP Logged Quote edtop40

tisk, tisk!!

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EdisonLite
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Posted: 24 October 2010 at 8:39am | IP Logged Quote EdisonLite

Does the only difference between the main version and the UK remix occur during the intro? After that, do they match up exactly (except that the last lingering held note may fade a bit earlier on some CD versions)?

Also, CFTP, when you say:

<The second version is a remix, with the same length. On the intro, there's a rim shot on the 2-beat (count 1-2-3-4)>

Isn't this true for the main/US mix FOR THE SECOND HALF OF THE INTRO? I have the "Meet Danny Wilson" CD and I'm hearing a rimshot on beat 2 - albeit only in the 2nd half of the intro. So to more accurately reflect the differences, do you mean to say "On the first half of the intro, there's a rim sho on the 2-beat"?
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crapfromthepast
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Posted: 24 October 2010 at 11:51am | IP Logged Quote crapfromthepast

The distinction I gave above is just an example of the mix differences - it's the quickest way to tell which is which.

There are other differences, too. For example, once the drums kick in, the first verse has some accenting guitars on the UK remix, which aren't on the original and US versions. I'm sure there are others, too.

So it's not just a slight difference in the intro between the two.
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