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crapfromthepast
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| Posted: 17 June 2007 at 8:55pm | IP Logged
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My older edition of Pat's book (1955-1996) lists three sources for this song, all with times between 4:13 and 4:16, all on RCA or Grunt/RCA discs. No indication that there would be any difference with the 45.
However, I know from an earlier post that a promo CD single went out with two versions of the song:
Starship-"It's Not Over ('Til It's Over)" (6478-2-GDJ)
1-Rock Mix (4:32)
2-Tom Mix (4:16)
My commercial 45, with "5227-7-G-A-1S" in the deadwax has a printed time of 4:32 and an actual running time of 4:32.
My 45 version has a different mix than my Greatest Hits (Ten Years And Change) CD, and I would guess that the 45 is the "Rock Mix" from the CD single, and the common CD version is the "Tom Mix" from the CD single; I don't actually have the promo CD single.
The version on my 45 is available on an extremely hard-to-find Canadian compilation called On Top (PolyTel 816 651-2, released in 1988). I got my copy in
Toronto in 1988, and I can't say I've seen any others since.
Should the 4:13-4:16 versions be labeled as "LP version"?
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Pat Downey
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| Posted: 24 June 2007 at 12:42pm | IP Logged
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You have a really old edition of my book and should really upgrade to the electronic version as the database currently shows LP version by every database entry.
Now, you mention a promo cd single of "It's Not Over" that includes a "rock mix" which runs (4:32). My vinyl dj 45 (Grunt 5225) includes a "rock mix" which runs (4:16) just as the label indicates, and a "Tom mix" which also runs (4:16) just as the label indicates. The commercial single is neither the "rock mix" or the "Tom mix" which I have on vinyl but could very well be the (4:32) version found on your dj cd single.
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crapfromthepast
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| Posted: 24 June 2007 at 6:05pm | IP Logged
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Pat - In addition to the track listings, I also seek out the best-mastered collections. In general, the best-sounding collections came out between 1992 and 1996 (plus or minus a few years). After 1996, most collections are mastered too loud, with excessive compression/limiting that crushes the dynamic range and sounds pretty miserable (some have referred to it as the "loudness war"). My old version of the book ensures that the collections were put together in the pre-loudness-war years.
But yeah, I should probably sign up for the electronic database.
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aaronk
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| Posted: 11 December 2007 at 2:38am | IP Logged
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This one has plenty of versions to keep track of, including two different "Rock Mix" versions. Can anyone tell me if the shorter "Rock Mix" running (4:16) on the DJ vinyl is the same as the LP version?
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aaronk
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| Posted: 17 October 2008 at 1:03am | IP Logged
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When comparing the two "Rock Mix" versions, the promo 45 has the guitar solo cut in half. The edit is at (2:44). I haven't heard the "Tom Mix" on either the 45 or promo CD to say whether it matches the LP version or not.
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Gary
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| Posted: 05 November 2017 at 6:07pm | IP Logged
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Did anyone come up with a determination whether the 4:32 Rock Mix is the same as the 45? Also whether the LP Version is the same as the Rock Mix that runs 4:16, or the Tom Mix that runs 4:16 or is it neither?
I have the CD single of this if anyone would me to send a copy along to analyze if someone has the LP version and the vinyl 45.
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Gary
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| Posted: 08 November 2017 at 7:50pm | IP Logged
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Gary wrote:
Did anyone come up with a determination whether the 4:32 Rock Mix is the same as the 45? Also whether the LP Version is the same as the Rock Mix that runs 4:16, or the Tom Mix that runs 4:16 or is it neither?
I have the CD single of this if anyone would me to send a copy along to analyze if someone has the LP version and the vinyl 45. |
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Bumping this up to see if anyone knows the answer to this.
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NightAire
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I just compared a file I have labeled "[promo 45 version, tom tom mix] {AK's collection}" to the version on the CD "No Protection" and other than the "No Protection" version being about 0.75% faster, I couldn't hear any differences.
The two files I have, when pitch corrected and summed to mono seem to be identical to my ears.
Does anyone have the vinyl LP to compare?
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thecdguy
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| Posted: 23 December 2020 at 6:39pm | IP Logged
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Gary wrote:
| Did anyone come up with a determination whether the 4:32 Rock Mix is the same as the 45? |
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Here's a video of the 45 being played on YouTube. Music starts at about :20 and ends at about 4:51. It sounds the same to me as the 4:32 Rock Mix that's on the Promo CD Single.
Starship - It's Not Over ('Til It's Over) 45
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crapfromthepast
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| Posted: 23 December 2020 at 8:21pm | IP Logged
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Summarizing everything above, thirteen years later:
Starship - "It's Not Over ('Til It's Over)" promo CD single (6478-2-GDJ)
Track 1: "Rock Mix" (4:32) - is also commercial 45 version, runs at 128.2 BPM
Track 2: "Tom Mix" (4:16) - is also LP version, which is available on all the (reputable) commercial CDs - runs at 128.2 BPM
The promo 45 includes the Tom Mix (4:16) on one side, and a 4:16 edit of the "Rock Mix" on the other side, with an edit at 2:44 that shortens the guitar solo.
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AndrewChouffi
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| Posted: 24 December 2020 at 4:28pm | IP Logged
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Can anyone describe any *mix* differences between "Rock
Mix" & "Tom Mix"?
Andy
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eriejwg
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| Posted: 24 December 2020 at 8:39pm | IP Logged
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What is the ending point of the edit at 2:44 in the 'rock
mix'?
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NightAire
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| Posted: 24 December 2020 at 9:11pm | IP Logged
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Fantastic info, Ron! I'd say that sums it up very well.
I do have one last question: did radio mainly play the rock mix, the tom mix, or the rock mix edit?
With the vinyl featuring the tom mix on side one, and the promo CD single featuring the rock mix as track one, I'm not clear.
Was the promo CD released at the same time the promo vinyl was, or was it a later addition?
(I don't remember seeing CDs at a radio station until 1988, and we were still be serviced by vinyl; I was having to buy commercial CDs to play CDs on the air.)
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thecdguy
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| Posted: 25 December 2020 at 7:19am | IP Logged
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AndrewChouffi wrote:
Can anyone describe any *mix* differences between "Rock
Mix" & "Tom Mix"?
Andy |
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I just listened to both mixes on headphones. These are the only differences I noticed:
1. The drums sound more upfront on the intro in the "Rock Mix"
2. There is reverb on the first word, "Listen", on the "Tom Mix".
I'm sure there's more differences, but I'll leave that up to the others here who have much better ears than me. If I had to guess, I'd say the differences are very subtle.
I don't recall this song having alot of Top 40 airplay here in Philadelphia, but I definitely don't remember hearing any echo/reverb on the first word like there is on the "Tom Mix". So I'll assume that the stations in my area played the "Rock Mix".
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AndrewChouffi
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| Posted: 25 December 2020 at 3:47pm | IP Logged
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NightAire wrote:
I just compared a file I have
labeled "[promo 45 version, tom tom mix] {AK's
collection}" to the version on the CD "No Protection"
and other than the "No Protection" version being about
0.75% faster, I couldn't hear any differences.
The two files I have, when pitch corrected and summed
to mono seem to be identical to my ears.
Does anyone have the vinyl LP to compare? |
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To Gene:
I have the same file (presumably from the same
collection). I think it might be in error; it sure
sounds like the promo 45 'rock mix' edit, rather than
the 'Tom mix' side...
Andy
Edited by AndrewChouffi on 25 December 2020 at 3:48pm
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AndrewChouffi
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| Posted: 25 December 2020 at 3:49pm | IP Logged
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thecdguy wrote:
AndrewChouffi wrote:
Can anyone
describe any *mix* differences between "Rock
Mix" & "Tom Mix"?
Andy |
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I just listened to both mixes on headphones. These are
the only differences I noticed:
1. The drums sound more upfront on the intro in the
"Rock Mix"
2. There is reverb on the first word, "Listen", on the
"Tom Mix".
I'm sure there's more differences, but I'll leave that
up to the others here who have much better ears than
me. If I had to guess, I'd say the differences are
very subtle.
I don't recall this song having alot of Top 40 airplay
here in Philadelphia, but I definitely don't remember
hearing any echo/reverb on the first word like there
is on the "Tom Mix". So I'll assume that the stations
in my area played the "Rock Mix".
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Thank you Dan!
Andy
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NightAire
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| Posted: 26 December 2020 at 1:36pm | IP Logged
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Going to Discogs, it appears the Rock Mix (short & long) were the recommended mixes for radio to play.
I base this on the 7" promo having the short Rock Mix on side A, and the CD single having the long Rock Mix as track 1.
Ron said this himself up above, and Dan above said he remembered the Rock Mix as the most likely version for his local top 40 to have played.
Interestingly, Discogs also lists a pre-album release of a 12" promo that lists its versions as "Long" and "Short Mix." Not owning this 12" I couldn't say if it is the long and short rock mixes, or a previously undiscovered long version of the Tom mix. (Hopefully there aren't any other options!) :)
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Gene Savage
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AndrewChouffi
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| Posted: 26 December 2020 at 5:17pm | IP Logged
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To Gene:
I just checked and found I own the 12" promo you
referenced. They are the long & short 'Rock Mix'
versions with no echo on the opening word "Listen".
Andy
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eriejwg
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| Posted: 26 December 2020 at 6:57pm | IP Logged
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Since this is an active discussion, I again wanted to ask
does anyone know where the edit points are for the 4:16
'rock mix'?
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John Gallagher
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AndrewChouffi
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| Posted: 27 December 2020 at 8:31am | IP Logged
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To John:
I'm not good at exact points, but the edit is approx.
2:46 to 3:00 of the longer "Rock Mix".
Andy
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Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Topic: Starship - It’s Not Over (’Til It’s Over)
