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Todd Ireland
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Posted: 27 April 2005 at 9:12am | IP Logged Quote Todd Ireland

Thanks to some assistance from Edtop40, I've learned that the 45 version of The Korgis' "Everybody's Got to Learn Sometime" runs 3:48 and has never appeared on CD. The commercial 45 edits out part of the instrumental portion toward the end of the LP version from 3:14-3:41. I believe the song's few domestic CD appearances to date are all the LP version.

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EdisonLite
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Posted: 27 April 2005 at 11:51am | IP Logged Quote EdisonLite

That's great info. I had no idea. I'll have to do an edit from my CD. I assume the single has the same mix, Todd? If I go to 3:14 and 3:41 on the CD versions, will it be evident where to splice without having the 45 version at my disposal? (Is it on the downbeats, for instance?) Thanks.
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Todd Ireland
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Posted: 27 April 2005 at 4:59pm | IP Logged Quote Todd Ireland

EdisonLite:

Yes, it is evident where to splice. If you set your edit points as closely as possible right before the snare drum strike at the 3:14 and the 3:41 marks (you can't miss the snare drum strikes because there's nothing but synthesizers preceding them at both edit points), you should have the 45 version!

Edited by Todd Ireland on 27 April 2005 at 5:06pm


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edtop40
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Posted: 28 April 2005 at 7:36pm | IP Logged Quote edtop40

hey paul...after you put this post regarding the korgis song i had to go back and review the song again........i don't know which lp/cd you took the album version from BUT, the version that is on the archive series is identical to the 45 version just faded out very slowly to 3:49......i can't hear any instrumentals NOT being included.......my cd version is the same as the 45 version....

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Todd Ireland
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Posted: 28 April 2005 at 8:27pm | IP Logged Quote Todd Ireland

Ed:

I compared the 45 version you e-mailed me to the 4:15 version on the Then '80s Again: TotallyOldies 7 on Varese Sarabande, which I presume is the LP version. The latter contains an additional instrumental loop toward the end of the song that is edited out of the 45. The single is definitely not an early fade of the version on this CD.

By the way, are you referring to the Korgis' Archive CD on the Rialto label? If so, this is an import disc and therefore would not be mentioned in Pat's book. Either way, I wasn't aware that CD carried the 45 version of "Everybody's Got to Learn Sometime"!

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budaniel
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Posted: 09 May 2005 at 8:48pm | IP Logged Quote budaniel

I have the Dumb Waiters CD as an import...and the original vinyl domestic, because when I bought the CD I was shocked to discover that the song has two completely different sets of lyrics for the verses, whereas, the version I've always known repeats the same lyrics twice for both verses. Can anyone clarify what version is on the comilations you guys are mentioning? Thanks.
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Todd Ireland
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Posted: 09 May 2005 at 9:14pm | IP Logged Quote Todd Ireland

budaniel wrote:
I have the Dumb Waiters CD as an import...and the original vinyl domestic, because when I bought the CD I was shocked to discover that the song has two completely different sets of lyrics for the verses, whereas, the version I've always known repeats the same lyrics twice for both verses. Can anyone clarify what version is on the comilations you guys are mentioning? Thanks.


Budaniel:

Unfortunately, the version of "Everybody's Got to Learn Sometime" on your Korgis' Dumb Waiters import CD is an alternate take. Why the folks who compiled that CD chose not to use the original version is completely beyond me.

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budaniel
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Posted: 12 May 2005 at 5:57pm | IP Logged Quote budaniel

So is there anyway of getting the full length original cut on a CD? The last copy I have of Pat's book (2002) has no listing for the track on CD at all. Thanks
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Todd Ireland
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Posted: 12 May 2005 at 11:05pm | IP Logged Quote Todd Ireland

Budaniel:

You can find the original full-length 4:15 version on:

Don't Look Back - Very Best of (Castle Music 81311)
Then '80s Again: Totally Oldies 7 (Varese Sarabande 066546)

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Posted: 15 May 2005 at 10:17am | IP Logged Quote budaniel

thanks so much for the info...checked my choices out on amazon, and Totally oldies 7 also had another 80s song I'd written on my "to get" list literally the day before!
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Posted: 19 May 2005 at 8:27am | IP Logged Quote EdisonLite

I made the single edit of this song last night. Thanks for your assistance on this. Was the 3:48 version available on commercial 45s or just dj 45s?
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Todd Ireland
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Posted: 20 May 2005 at 7:30am | IP Logged Quote Todd Ireland

EdisonLite:

The 3:48 version is on the commercial 45.

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Posted: 12 July 2006 at 1:03pm | IP Logged Quote aaronk

Upon listening to a vinyl 45 dub of this song, it appears that the true 45 edit cannot be made using Totally Oldies 7 on Varese.

I'm not sure if it was on the master tape or if the producers at Varese decided to "correct" the opening note; however on their CD, they replaced the opening synth note with the fifth note of the intro. I guess they thought that the first note sounded like a mistake and decided to fix it.

The true LP version does not have this "correction." I heard Jim's LP version from a Korgis' import CD and the opening note matches the 45. It's a minor detail, but worth noting.
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Posted: 12 July 2006 at 1:05pm | IP Logged Quote aaronk

By the way, Pat. You may need to note in the database that Totally Oldies 7 is "neither the 45 nor LP" or "LP version with different opening note"...something to that effect.
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Posted: 12 July 2006 at 2:02pm | IP Logged Quote EdisonLite

I have the import Korgis CD "Archive Series".

I simply followed Todd Ireland's guidelines:

<The commercial 45 edits out part of the instrumental portion toward the end of the LP version from 3:14-3:41>

to make my edit. Would this be the single edit? When you say Varese replaced the opening intro note with the 5th note, it sounds like the intro was edited, too -- which obviously I didn't do, based on Todd's description.

If anyone has the "Archive" CD -- I'm just curious, did I make the single edit?
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Posted: 12 July 2006 at 2:13pm | IP Logged Quote aaronk

I'm talking literally the FIRST note only. On the LP & 45 versions, it sounds as if the keyboardist makes a slight error, but perhaps it's intended that way. On the Varese CD, the first note was "corrected."

Gordon, if you used the import CD to make your edit, you wouldn't have to do anything with the intro. Todd is right in that there is only one edit, and he told you the correct edit points.

Bottom line: Avoid the Varese CD for this cut. It has the wrong intro.
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Posted: 13 July 2006 at 9:51pm | IP Logged Quote aaronk

Todd, not to be overly picky...but that's what we do on this board, right? :)

The edit is actually at (3:15) on the second drum strike. When I put the LP and 45 versions on top of each other, they were exatly in sync (and phasing) up until the second drum strike. When I made the edit as you said above, I couldn't get them to sync up correctly.

I know, it's anal, and without putting them on top of each other, you'd never know the difference.
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Todd Ireland
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Posted: 13 July 2006 at 10:14pm | IP Logged Quote Todd Ireland

Hmmm... I'll have to go back and check my edits.

What's great about you, Aaron, is whenever you work on edits, I know you're doing them right and with pinpoint precision!

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Posted: 13 July 2006 at 10:28pm | IP Logged Quote aaronk

Thanks, Todd! When I first started editing several years ago (1997 to be exact), I used my ear to figure out the edit points. I've gone back and checked some of my early edits, and I was pretty much dead on with all of them.

Over the past couple years, I started using a multi-tracker to edit songs. That means I could have the LP version on one track and 45 version on another and play them on top of each other. Whenever the songs go out of sync, I know there is an edit point. Nowadays, my edits should be indistinguishable from the orignal master tape! Computer editing software allows you to come that close...
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Todd Ireland
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Posted: 13 July 2006 at 10:45pm | IP Logged Quote Todd Ireland

I also use a multi-tracker to sync up and edit songs but I've always just clicked back and forth repeatedly between the 45 version track and the LP version track when listening for edits. Your way of playing both tracks simultaneously does make more sense because you are able measure edits more precisely by listening for phasing and synchronization differences.

You may not realize it, Aaron, but you've helped give me a valuable editing tip! I owe you one! ;-)

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