Active TopicsActive Topics  Display List of Forum MembersMemberlist  Search The ForumSearch  HelpHelp
  RegisterRegister  LoginLogin
Chat Board
 Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Subject Topic: Toy Soldiers - Martika Post ReplyPost New Topic
Author
Message << Prev Topic | Next Topic >>
Pat Downey
Admin Group
Admin Group


Joined: 01 October 2003
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1668
Posted: 17 March 2005 at 8:30am | IP Logged Quote Pat Downey

Just reviewed the new Martika Greatest Hits cd titled "Toy Soldiers - The Best Of" and found the title track to be interesting in that they faded "Toy Soldiers" :30 earler than the LP. Then I got to looking at the current entries in the 10th edition of Top 40 Music On CD and found a couple of listings for a 45 version of this song so I pulled out my promo 45 to see if it was really faded early and the answer is no it is not. The promo 45 lists one side as being the LP version running 4:52 and the other side is listed as the 45 version running 4:52. After listening to both, I hear no difference so the the question is, can anyone point out a difference between the 45 version of "Toy Soldiers" and the LP version of "Toy Soldiers"? The entries in the 10th edition that state "45 version" are incorrect as those cd's are missing the introduction found on both the LP and 45 so I will now have to change the comment to "neither the 45 or LP version".

Edited by Moderator on 17 March 2005 at 8:24pm
Back to Top View Pat Downey's Profile Search for other posts by Pat Downey
 
Todd Ireland
MusicFan
MusicFan


Joined: 16 October 2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4193
Posted: 17 March 2005 at 1:57pm | IP Logged Quote Todd Ireland

Pat:

I have a U.K. import Martika CD not available in the U.S. called The Best of Martika: More Than You Know released in 1997 (Columbia 4885812). The CD jacket states that "Toy Soldiers" is the single version. I pulled out my copy and noticed that the song contains the children's chorus introduction but fades out at 4:18, which is :34 sooner than the LP version. This sounds very similar to your description of "Toy Soldiers" on the CD you reviewed, Pat. I'm wondering if there's a different commercial or promo single pressing where the song fades early like this?

My import CD also claims it contains the single version of "I Feel the Earth Move" and "More Than You Know". I can assure everyone that "I Feel the Earth Move" is definitely not the single version here as it runs 4:12, unlike the 45 which finishes at 4:04. In fact, I can tell the producers of the import disc pulled the track directly from Martika's 1989 self-titled debut album (Columbia 44290) because when "I Feel the Earth Move" ends you can actually hear a split second of the intro to "Water", which is the song that seamlessly follows "I Feel the Earth Move" on the debut album. The underlying point here is the CD jacket is not always correct when it states a song is the "single version" (unless of course the single version was different in Europe than in the U.S.).   

Meanwhile, I listened to the alleged single version of "More Than You Know" on the import CD and here are some things I found to be different than the LP version: 1) the song is missing the very first two notes; 2) the mix is slightly different overall; and 3) the fade begins sooner and lasts approximately :07 longer than the that of the LP version. The song's run time on the import disc is 4:03. Does this entire description match anyone's 45 or cassette single copy of "More Than You Know"?
Back to Top View Todd Ireland's Profile Search for other posts by Todd Ireland
 
Moderator
Admin Group
Admin Group


Joined: 10 July 2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 447
Posted: 17 March 2005 at 8:21pm | IP Logged Quote Moderator

I don't know if there were 2 different 45's pressed of "Toy Soldiers" but the version on her new US cd titled "Toy Soldiers - Best Of" is the same one that you are describing Todd as being on the U.K. Best Of cd and labeled the 45 version (at least in Europe). Whitburn lists the running time as 4:52 and my dj copy runs 4:52 so if anyone has another 45 version other than the 4:52 version, please step forward.

__________________
Top 40 Music On Compact Disc Moderator
Back to Top View Moderator's Profile Search for other posts by Moderator
 
EdisonLite
MusicFan
MusicFan


Joined: 18 October 2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1656
Posted: 18 March 2005 at 8:03am | IP Logged Quote EdisonLite

<if anyone has another 45 version other than the 4:52 version, please step forward.>

I don't have the 45, but I do have a friend who produced & co-wrote "Toy Soldiers", and we had a discussion on this very subject three years ago. I'll have to confirm it with him, but as I recall, the shorter version which is missing the acapella intro (and can be found on Rhino's "Billboard Top Hits 1989") was a version submitted to radio after the song began taking off. Apparently, there was a need for a shorter version, but this isn't an edit because the word "soldiers" at the end of the acapella section overlaps with the instrumentation that comes next (on the original version), and on this version the instrumentation starts cold, and obviously you don't hear the second syllable of "soldiers". So I guess this version can be described as "radio version", although I think many radio stations did not play this version, so that might be misleading.
Back to Top View EdisonLite's Profile Search for other posts by EdisonLite Visit EdisonLite's Homepage
 
Brian W.
MusicFan
MusicFan


Joined: 13 October 2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2198
Posted: 18 March 2005 at 8:24am | IP Logged Quote Brian W.

My original UK CD single (commercial) for Toy Soldiers contains a version called "Edit" version and runs 4:18, though the label sleeve claims 4:15.

1. Toy Soldiers (edit) (actual 4:18)
2. It's Not What You're Doing (actual 4:11)
3. Exchange of Hearts (actual 4:19)

It says Toy Soldiers is a "special version" from the LP "Martika" (all CBS singles say that, if there's anything different about the song at all), but it says Toy Soldiers is mixed by Humberto Gatica, and mixed by Keith Cohen, from the LP "Martika." So I don't know if Toy Soldiers is a remix or not. Anyone got her album to see who mixed the LP version?
Back to Top View Brian W.'s Profile Search for other posts by Brian W.
 
Brian W.
MusicFan
MusicFan


Joined: 13 October 2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2198
Posted: 18 March 2005 at 8:26am | IP Logged Quote Brian W.

The above was supposed to say "It's Not What You're Doing" was mixed by Keith Cohen.
Back to Top View Brian W.'s Profile Search for other posts by Brian W.
 
EdisonLite
MusicFan
MusicFan


Joined: 18 October 2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1656
Posted: 18 March 2005 at 8:40am | IP Logged Quote EdisonLite

<It says Toy Soldiers is a "special version" from the LP "Martika" ...it says Toy Soldiers is mixed by Humberto Gatica. So I don't know if Toy Soldiers is a remix or not. Anyone got her album to see who mixed the LP version?>

It's all coming back to me now. Humberto Gatica did do a remix (and a great sounding one at that.) The version on the Rhino CD that I referenced above was certainly remixed by him. Whether there exists a longer version (with acapella intro) that is also mixed by him -- I'll have to ask my friend.
Back to Top View EdisonLite's Profile Search for other posts by EdisonLite Visit EdisonLite's Homepage
 
EdisonLite
MusicFan
MusicFan


Joined: 18 October 2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1656
Posted: 18 March 2005 at 8:41am | IP Logged Quote EdisonLite

And just to be clear, though I do not have the Martika album, the version on the album was not mixed by Humberto.
Back to Top View EdisonLite's Profile Search for other posts by EdisonLite Visit EdisonLite's Homepage
 
EdisonLite
MusicFan
MusicFan


Joined: 18 October 2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1656
Posted: 18 March 2005 at 11:34am | IP Logged Quote EdisonLite

OK, I just got the scoop from my friend who produced and co-wrote this song. Humberto G. did the single mix, which DOES include the acapella intro. It has the same instruments as the album version (no new sounds were added), but just mixed better and more clearly. This mix was available on the 45, cassette single, and the promo CD single. It is the same length as the album version.

Radio stations were shortening the song because it was rather long, so apparently, there was an edit provided to radio, but my friend knew nothing about it until I showed him the Rhino CD a few years ago. It was not even on the promo CD single, which only had one mix, which was full-length. My friend was at the studio with Humberto and he knows there was no other edits/mixes done. So my guess is the record company just did some quick edit to supply to radio stations requesting a shorter version, and for some reason, that is the version that ended up on the Rhino "Billboard 1989" CD. Like I said earlier, I wouldn't really call it the radio version, because it was not the version played on most radio stations and was not used in the video. It's almost like an alternate version, and it just happened to show up on the Rhino CD.
Back to Top View EdisonLite's Profile Search for other posts by EdisonLite Visit EdisonLite's Homepage
 
Todd Ireland
MusicFan
MusicFan


Joined: 16 October 2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4193
Posted: 18 March 2005 at 5:10pm | IP Logged Quote Todd Ireland

I do have the LP version of "Toy Soldiers" on Martika's self-titled 1989 CD (Columbia 44290) and the liner notes say that the song was mixed by Michael McDonald at Garden Rake Studio in Sherman Oaks, California. (This wouldn't be the Michael McDonald of Doobie Brothers fame, would it???) So apparently, the single versions of "Toy Soldiers" were indeed remixed.

My memory is very hazy here, but I ever so vaguely seem to recall hearing the 4:36 version from the Billboard Top Hits - 1989 (Rhino 71644) on a local Adult Contemporary radio station and wondering what had happened to the children's chorus intro. And EdisonLite brings up a good point... The intro without the children's chorus would have had to come directly from the multi-track master tapes to prevent the vocal bleedover during the instrumental introduction. So this version must have been intended for radio airplay unless it was an alternate take that got axed in favor of the full-length versions.
Back to Top View Todd Ireland's Profile Search for other posts by Todd Ireland
 
Todd Ireland
MusicFan
MusicFan


Joined: 16 October 2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4193
Posted: 18 March 2005 at 5:17pm | IP Logged Quote Todd Ireland

Oops, I meant to say "alternate version", not "alternate take". And again I can't say for certain if I ever heard this version on the radio, so for now it's probably best to just assume I haven't.
Back to Top View Todd Ireland's Profile Search for other posts by Todd Ireland
 
aaronk
MusicFan
MusicFan


Joined: 16 January 2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5213
Posted: 28 June 2005 at 2:36am | IP Logged Quote aaronk

Thanks for the info on "Toy Soldiers," EdisonLite. I did want to make one minor correction: The so-called "edit" on Billboard Top Hits 1989 could have just been someone cutting off the intro. If you listen to the version on that CD, you'll notice that the intro music is only one measure long (four seconds). The version that has the acapella intro has two measures from the time the music kicks in until the first verse starts. The word "soldiers" only overlaps with that first measure of music.

The question remains...which CDs contain the "remixed" single version (including the intro), and which contain the LP version?
Back to Top View aaronk's Profile Search for other posts by aaronk Visit aaronk's Homepage
 
aaronk
MusicFan
MusicFan


Joined: 16 January 2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5213
Posted: 28 June 2005 at 2:53am | IP Logged Quote aaronk

P.S. The easiest way I can tell which is the remix and which is the LP version (since there's not any added instrumentation) is that right before the chorus, when the kids sing "won't you come out and play with me," there is an electronic hand clap that has quite a bit of reverb on the remixed version. The LP version has very little reverb on that hand clap. Also the music right after the acapella intro sounds quite a bit different, but I can't describe the difference in writing.
Back to Top View aaronk's Profile Search for other posts by aaronk Visit aaronk's Homepage
 
Brian W.
MusicFan
MusicFan


Joined: 13 October 2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2198
Posted: 19 May 2006 at 1:10am | IP Logged Quote Brian W.

I found the 45 version of "Toy Soldiers" on a commercial CD, albeit an OOP UK import. It's on a 1993 Martika CD called "Twelve Inch Mixes, a collection of extended remixes of her songs, and they refer to Toy Soldiers as "Special Version." Liner notes say it was remixed by Humberto Gatica, and Aaron's description matches what I'm hearing. Actual running time is 4:52.

It's not all THAT rare, and accordingly shouldn't go for a whole lot of money... I just got mine on Ebay for about five bucks U.S. The shipping from the UK was more than the CD was.

Edited by Brian W. on 19 May 2006 at 1:12am
Back to Top View Brian W.'s Profile Search for other posts by Brian W.
 
aaronk
MusicFan
MusicFan


Joined: 16 January 2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5213
Posted: 19 May 2006 at 8:53am | IP Logged Quote aaronk

Good info, Brian!
Back to Top View aaronk's Profile Search for other posts by aaronk Visit aaronk's Homepage
 
elcoleccionista
MusicFan
MusicFan


Joined: 28 November 2005
Location: Argentina
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 311
Posted: 19 May 2006 at 10:03am | IP Logged Quote elcoleccionista

I looked for the Gatica remix for a while. Last year I saw the 2 track promo CD on Ebay but missed it. Until I finally came across the 12" Mixes CD, and Brian is correct, it can easily be found on Ebay, and rarely fetches more than US$15 if that much.

If it helps, another way to easily tell album version from the remix, is at the very end, after the last sung section "...like toy soldiers..".

On Gatica's remix the drumstick sound kicks in a few seconds later than on the album version, where it comes in right after.

Back to Top View elcoleccionista's Profile Search for other posts by elcoleccionista
 
JMD1961
MusicFan
MusicFan


Joined: 29 March 2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 152
Posted: 02 July 2007 at 6:25pm | IP Logged Quote JMD1961

I have this track on a Canadian various artists compilation titled "Lady Power" (Quality Records QRSPD-1124 [1991]). It times out at 4:43 in Acoustica. I've tried listening to determine (based on all the previous information) which mix I have, but just can't tell.   Is anybody else familiar with this CD who might help me out?
Back to Top View JMD1961's Profile Search for other posts by JMD1961
 
edtop40
MusicFan
MusicFan


Joined: 29 October 2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4888
Posted: 02 July 2007 at 7:42pm | IP Logged Quote edtop40

i found the true 45 version on the 3" import cd single...

__________________
edtop40
Back to Top View edtop40's Profile Search for other posts by edtop40
 
jimct
MusicFan
MusicFan


Joined: 07 April 2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3906
Posted: 07 November 2007 at 9:38am | IP Logged Quote jimct

Here is the info from my promo CD single (CSK 1563). Directly under Cut 1's title, it does specifically say "Produced by Michael Jay; Mixed by Humberto Gatica for Hum, Inc. Productions". And directly under Cut 2's title, it does specifically say "Produced by Michael Jay; engineered and mixed by Michael McDonald".

1-(Single Version) (listed 4:52; actual 4:51)
2-(LP Version) (listed 4:52; actual 4:47)
Back to Top View jimct's Profile Search for other posts by jimct
 
eriejwg
MusicFan
MusicFan


Joined: 10 June 2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2536
Posted: 07 November 2007 at 12:07pm | IP Logged Quote eriejwg

Is the Japanese version listed in the database the 45 or LP mix?
Back to Top View eriejwg's Profile Search for other posts by eriejwg Visit eriejwg's Homepage
 

Page of 2 Next >>
  Post ReplyPost New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum



This page was generated in 0.0781 seconds.