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edtop40
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Posted: 18 October 2006 at 7:36pm | IP Logged Quote edtop40

pat

the version from the cd "faith" is the correct 45 version and all the others should be noted as "neither 45 or lp version".....all the other versions start the song about 0:03 later during the very soft intro.....i don't know if they couldn't hear the intro properly or they chose to truncate the intro but the only cd that has the proper 45 version is the cd "faith"....edtop40

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Todd Ireland
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Posted: 19 October 2006 at 9:01pm | IP Logged Quote Todd Ireland

This situation sounds very similar to the one discussed elsewhere on this board recently regarding Rufus & Chaka Khan's "Ain't Nobody". I would agree that the difference with "Faith" is probably significant enough to warrant a notation in the database. My question is, would a (neither the 45 or LP version) be the best comment to use here, or perhaps something a little more specific like (intro fades in :03 later than the LP or 45 version). I'm wondering if a "neither the 45 or LP version" comment in this instance might mislead readers into thinking this is an altogether different version or edit when in reality the only discrepency is the first few seconds of the intro. Anyone else want to weigh in on this?
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edtop40
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Posted: 19 October 2006 at 9:06pm | IP Logged Quote edtop40

todd...piont taken.....maybe an entry of "neither 45 or lp version" would be too strong of a qualifier.....

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aaronk
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Posted: 19 October 2006 at 9:16pm | IP Logged Quote aaronk

I agree that the "neither" comment could be misleading. Pat usually doesn't designate anything for only a few seconds of fade difference anyhow. I suppose it doesn't matter of the fade is at the beginning or the end.
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Todd Ireland
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Posted: 21 October 2006 at 7:40am | IP Logged Quote Todd Ireland

aaronk wrote:
I agree that the "neither" comment could be misleading. Pat usually doesn't designate anything for only a few seconds of fade difference anyhow. I suppose it doesn't matter of the fade is at the beginning or the end.


Very good point, Aaron. So, Pat, what policy do you think should be adopted to determine if a delayed fade-in is significant enough to warrant a comment?
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aaronk
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Posted: 21 October 2006 at 10:09am | IP Logged Quote aaronk

Personally, I would be confused by a "neither" comment, and I would opt for something like "fades in :03 later," as you suggested, Paul.
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eriejwg
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Posted: 28 July 2010 at 9:05pm | IP Logged Quote eriejwg

Was there ever a promo CD or 45 that went past the organ intro and started with the acoustic guitar?

I know sometimes we cued past the organ on-air, but it may have been personal decisions by the jocks at the station I worked at in 1987.
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jimct
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Posted: 29 July 2010 at 2:15am | IP Logged Quote jimct

eriejwg wrote:
Was there ever a promo CD or 45 that went past the organ intro and started with the acoustic guitar?
No and no, John.

eriejwg wrote:
I know sometimes we cued past the organ on-air, but it may have been personal decisions by the jocks at the station I worked at in 1987.
We/many other stations were still using carts to a large extent during 1987, although their "death rattle" would come soon enough. We had both a "cued-past-the-organ" cart and the full CD in-studio at our station, for those jocks comfortable just cueing the disc past the organ. Our station policy (like many others, I suspect) was to never play the organ intro on-air at all.
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Santi Paradoa
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Posted: 13 April 2011 at 5:26pm | IP Logged Quote Santi Paradoa

FYI: I just noticed on my copy of "Ladies & Gentlemen: The Best Of George Michael" the track contains a full minute of silence once the song "Faith" ends. I ripped the song and listened to it and discovered the dead silence. I should have know something was wrong when the song clocked in at over four minutes. I wonder how many other discs have the same glitch.

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elcoleccionista
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Posted: 10 March 2017 at 8:34am | IP Logged Quote elcoleccionista

Mine has it as well, Santi. For some time, I thought it
was an iTunes/CD drive ripping issue on my end, then I
went back to re-rip to find out about the dead silence
ending. So mine has it as well, it's made in the US. I
will check with friends who own the Argentina or Euro
verions of the compilation to check for the glitch.
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eriejwg
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Posted: 10 March 2017 at 12:05pm | IP Logged Quote eriejwg

To go back to what was mentioned earlier in the thread
about stations, like Jim's, that didn't play the organ
portion, TM has the song in their library as "intro
edit." I don't have a copy of their file, but I've
chopped off the organ on my file and labeled it the
same. Mine starts off with the acoustic guitar.

To each his own, your mileage may vary.
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Underground Dub
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Posted: 10 March 2017 at 11:19pm | IP Logged Quote Underground Dub

Santi Paradoa wrote:
FYI: I just noticed on my copy of "Ladies & Gentlemen: The Best Of George Michael" the track contains a full minute of silence once the song "Faith" ends. I ripped the song and listened to it and discovered the dead silence. I should have know something was wrong when the song clocked in at over four minutes. I wonder how many other discs have the same glitch.


elcoleccionista wrote:
Mine has it as well, Santi. For some time, I thought it
was an iTunes/CD drive ripping issue on my end, then I
went back to re-rip to find out about the dead silence
ending. So mine has it as well, it's made in the US. I
will check with friends who own the Argentina or Euro
verions of the compilation to check for the glitch.


This was an intentional mastering decision made in 1998 by George Michael and/or the producers and engineers of the Ladies & Gentlemen compilation project and should be present on all copies the world over.

As with Whitney Houston's Greatest Hits collection in 2000, the 2 CD's were themed so that the first, "For The Heart", consisted of George's ballad recordings, while disc 2, "For The Feet", represented his more uptempo/dance hits.

To round out the collection, the final track on disc 2 was "Somebody To Love", a ballad. A minute of space was added before it meaning that, when the CD is ripped, it will typically add this break to the end of "Faith".

Surely a frustration for those who aren't handy with a digital editor when extracting tracks from the CD, but definitely not a "glitch".
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aaronk
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Posted: 10 March 2017 at 11:32pm | IP Logged Quote aaronk

I agree this was an intentional mastering decision. When playing the disc in a CD player, you'll see the track number roll to 14, and then it will count from -0:59 to 0:00 before "Somebody To Love" begins.

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elcoleccionista
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Posted: 31 March 2017 at 10:38am | IP Logged Quote elcoleccionista

Interesting, thanks for sharing that, do you consider
"Somebody To Love" a ballad? Sounds like an uptempo track
to my ears.
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aaronk
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Posted: 01 April 2017 at 5:38am | IP Logged Quote aaronk

It's mid-tempo to me. I would also not call it a ballad, but I can see how
it would fit better with the "for the heart" songs.

Edited by aaronk on 01 April 2017 at 5:39am


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elcoleccionista
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Posted: 03 April 2017 at 10:50pm | IP Logged Quote elcoleccionista

I agree that it fits in on the "For The Heart" disc and mid-tempo
sounds right, still don't get the silence in between tracks as a
concept, to separate if from the rest of the tracks on disc 1 because
it is not a true ballad? And even so, I don't see the point in adding
silence to a track, as opposed to the practice with hidden tracks.
"Somebody To Love" is the best one to make the transition to switch
to disc 2 "For The Feet", that I do think.

Edited by elcoleccionista on 03 April 2017 at 10:52pm
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radiofan16
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Posted: 04 April 2017 at 1:09am | IP Logged Quote radiofan16

jimct wrote:
eriejwg wrote:
Was there ever a promo CD or 45 that went
past the organ intro and started with the acoustic guitar?
No and no,
John.

eriejwg wrote:
I know sometimes we cued past the organ on-air, but it may
have been personal decisions by the jocks at the station I worked at in 1987.
We/many other stations were still using carts to a large extent during
1987, although their "death rattle" would come soon enough. We had both a
"cued-past-the-organ" cart and the full CD in-studio at our station, for those
jocks comfortable just cueing the disc past the organ. Our station policy (like
many others, I suspect) was to never play the organ intro on-air at all.


Why did your station have that policy?
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aaronk
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Posted: 04 April 2017 at 7:16am | IP Logged Quote aaronk

elcoleccionista wrote:
I agree that it fits in on the "For The Heart"
disc and mid-tempo
sounds right, still don't get the silence in between tracks as a
concept, to separate if from the rest of the tracks on disc 1 because
it is not a true ballad? And even so, I don't see the point in adding
silence to a track, as opposed to the practice with hidden tracks.
"Somebody To Love" is the best one to make the transition to switch
to disc 2 "For The Feet", that I do think.

Ah, but "Somebody To Love" is the last song on Disc 2, which finishes
out the "Feet" disc. It would've been better at the end of Disc 1, like you
said, with no space. I guess it didn't fit?

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elcoleccionista
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Posted: 04 April 2017 at 7:48am | IP Logged Quote elcoleccionista

aaronk wrote:

Ah, but "Somebody To Love" is the last song on Disc 2,
which finishes
out the "Feet" disc. It would've been better at the end
of Disc 1, like you
said, with no space. I guess it didn't fit?


Thanks for noticing that it's on the "Feet" disc! In that
case I can only think of what you propose, I don't have
the discs with me now but it looks like at 14 tracks both
discs, more tracks on "Heart" are longer than on "Feet".
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Hykker
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Posted: 04 April 2017 at 11:37am | IP Logged Quote Hykker

radiofan16 wrote:

Why did your station have that policy?


I can't speak for the station Jim worked at, but as a
former music director and the person responsible for
carting (or later dubbing into automation) songs at
several stations, these soft, fade-in intros just made
the station sound loose.
OK on a AAA or some other format where formatics were
kind of loose anyway but not on a fast-paced format like
Top 40.
I was always very particular about maintaining consistent
intro levels. Yeah, the processing will take care of it
to some degree but it still sounded better on the air.


Edited by Hykker on 04 April 2017 at 11:37am
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