Active TopicsActive Topics  Display List of Forum MembersMemberlist  Search The ForumSearch  HelpHelp
  RegisterRegister  LoginLogin
Chat Board
 Top 40 Music on Compact Disc : Chat Board
Subject Topic: Fats Domino--Blueberry Hill Post ReplyPost New Topic
Author
Message << Prev Topic | Next Topic >>
Paul Esch
MusicFan
MusicFan


Joined: 15 August 2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 114
Posted: 21 July 2006 at 6:44am | IP Logged Quote Paul Esch

I've always wondered about this one. My original 45 of this song
(Imperial 5407) has a belt slip, or flutter, at about the 1:06 mark, on
the line "But all of the vows we made," with the slip on the word
"made." I've never heard this belt slip on any CD version, although
the only two CD versions I have are on They Call Me The Fat Man[/
I] (EMI 96786) and Heart & Soul Fifties (JCI 3204). Does anyone
else have this version? Does this qualify as a 45 version, or just an
error at the manufacturing plant?

Edited by Paul Esch on 21 July 2006 at 6:47am
Back to Top View Paul Esch's Profile Search for other posts by Paul Esch
 
TomDiehl1
MusicFan
MusicFan


Joined: 13 January 2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 639
Posted: 21 July 2006 at 11:15am | IP Logged Quote TomDiehl1

All of the first pressing Imperial 45s had that flub (due to a tape splice getting snagged during mastering)...the 78s did not have the snag. Later Imperial 45s corrected it as well. I dont believe it is out on cd, because it was an error pressing in a sense (ive had 5 copies all with the flub, maroon label pressings).

__________________
Live in stereo.
Back to Top View TomDiehl1's Profile Search for other posts by TomDiehl1 Visit TomDiehl1's Homepage
 
Gary Mack
MusicFan
MusicFan


Joined: 06 February 2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 158
Posted: 21 July 2006 at 4:43pm | IP Logged Quote Gary Mack

My RED label Imperial 45 also had the glitch. Mom bought it for me in 1956 but, alas, it is long gone.

GM
Back to Top View Gary Mack's Profile Search for other posts by Gary Mack
 
edtop40
MusicFan
MusicFan


Joined: 29 October 2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4886
Posted: 20 October 2013 at 8:44am | IP Logged Quote edtop40

it should also be noted the commercial 45 has a listed run
time of 2:14 but actually runs 2:19...this s/b added to the
db...

__________________
edtop40
Back to Top View edtop40's Profile Search for other posts by edtop40
 
TomDiehl1
MusicFan
MusicFan


Joined: 13 January 2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 639
Posted: 21 October 2013 at 1:08am | IP Logged Quote TomDiehl1

I've since learned that the 78 does NOT contain the tape problem contained in the first 45 pressing. Also, later 45 pressings and subsuqent reissues apparently edit a later part of the song and put it where the slipped part of the song was...so it's possible that some versions on cd that don't have the slip may be the 78 version or they may all be slightly different than the 45.

__________________
Live in stereo.
Back to Top View TomDiehl1's Profile Search for other posts by TomDiehl1 Visit TomDiehl1's Homepage
 
Yah Shure
MusicFan
MusicFan


Joined: 11 December 2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1256
Posted: 21 October 2013 at 6:27pm | IP Logged Quote Yah Shure

The "Blueberry Hill" 45 was counterfeited in the early '70s on the late-'50s-1964 black Imperial label with the five multi-colored stars. I bought one of these in 1971, and it has the same tape wow as my original maroon label stock copy. The counterfeit is off-centered and the vinyl is predictably hissy. The transfer itself isn't half bad.

Interestingly enough, I bought another counterfeit 45 at the very same time: Freddy Cannon's "Palisades Park" on the white and reddish-brown Swan label. This one tried to be a little craftier in mimicking the legit Swan issues, using the widely-spaced deadwax letters and numbers typically found on Cameo/Parkway and Swan 45s; but the knockoff's characters still aren't as large as the jumbo-sized legit ones. It's also missing the Reco-Art mastering house deadwax logo present on my original Mallard and RCA Rockaway "Palisades Park" pressings. The vinyl is bargain-basement quality, too, although one could often say the same thing about Mallard's 45 product.
Back to Top View Yah Shure's Profile Search for other posts by Yah Shure
 
Pat Downey
Admin Group
Admin Group


Joined: 01 October 2003
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1668
Posted: 20 October 2017 at 8:12am | IP Logged Quote Pat Downey

Tom Daly just sent me a detailed explanation of the history behind the release of Blueberry Hill which I thought everyone would enjoy reading:

The master for “Blueberry Hill” had splices in it that got stuck in the tape machine when the production master was dubbed that was used to cut the 45 rpm stampers. This same tape found its way to the master reel for the vinyl LP, This is Fats Domino. This is probably why everyone thinks that THE tape suffered damage, however the 78 rpm issues, released simultaneously with the 45s had no such issue, and it is the 78 rpm master that has been used since United Artists Records bought Imperial from Liberty, after Liberty had bought the label from Lew Chudd. Bob Hyde, who ran Capitol/EMI Music Special Markets when I first began mastering ERIC Records’ CDs, gave me the lowdown on the pedigree of those tapes a long time ago when we conversed about low-generation sources. To confirm what Bob had told me about the history of “Blueberry Hill,” I sought out a 78 rpm Imperial shellac disc, played it and what I heard confirmed what Bob had told me. The 78s had no trace of a tape snag anywhere in the recording where they occurred on the original 45s and the LP pressing of This is Fats Domino. Liberty/UA has always used the 78 rpm master tape for subsequent reissues, and only original red, orange or black label Imperial 45s and the aforementioned LP have the tape snag. Interesting sidebar: the master containing the snag had RIAA pre-compensation on it. The master for the 78 is flat. I just thought you might be interested in this info that will probably die with me if I don’t share it with someone else who cares. Bob Hyde has been gone for the past 15 years, so he won’t be sharing the info with anyone else!

Tom Daly

Back to Top View Pat Downey's Profile Search for other posts by Pat Downey
 
aaronk
MusicFan
MusicFan


Joined: 16 January 2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5161
Posted: 20 October 2017 at 9:15am | IP Logged Quote aaronk

Thanks for sharing, Pat! Interesting story.

__________________
Aaron Kannowski
Uptown Sound
Back to Top View aaronk's Profile Search for other posts by aaronk Visit aaronk's Homepage
 
Tom Daly
MusicFan
MusicFan


Joined: 20 October 2017
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7
Posted: 20 October 2017 at 2:33pm | IP Logged Quote Tom Daly

Yah Shure wrote:
The "Blueberry Hill" 45 was counterfeited in the early '70s on the late-'50s-1964 black Imperial label with the five multi-colored stars. I bought one of these in 1971, and it has the same tape wow as my original maroon label stock copy. The counterfeit is off-centered and the vinyl is predictably hissy. The transfer itself isn't half bad.

Interestingly enough, I bought another counterfeit 45 at the very same time: Freddy Cannon's "Palisades Park" on the white and reddish-brown Swan label. This one tried to be a little craftier in mimicking the legit Swan issues, using the widely-spaced deadwax letters and numbers typically found on Cameo/Parkway and Swan 45s; but the knockoff's characters still aren't as large as the jumbo-sized legit ones. It's also missing the Reco-Art mastering house deadwax logo present on my original Mallard and RCA Rockaway "Palisades Park" pressings. The vinyl is bargain-basement quality, too, although one could often say the same thing about Mallard's 45 product.


These bootlegs were pressed in Utica, NY by a guy named Stanley Markowski and they found their way to Transcontinental Music Corporation, which was a distributor out of Woburn, MA. TMC ran a bunch of Boston-area stores called Krey's Disc Shops, where I worked part-time as a college student. Wanting to know the "ins and outs" of the business, I frequently discussed the sources of some of the singles with our district manager, whose office was in the main warehouse in Woburn. He told me some guy used to come by with a station wagon full of cases of singles, and the company would buy the whole kit and kaboodle from him and ship them out to the stores. I never suspected we carried anything but legit product until we began carrying ABC/Dunhill's line of "Goldies 45s," all of which were mastered from records, and many of which sounded horrible, so I began questioning where the stock was coming from. The Goldies 45s all came directly from ABC/Dunhill, but then our district manager told me about the bootlegs and almost bowled me over! TMC got taken over by U.S. Record Company and rebranded Musicland, along with the Sam Goody's shops in New York. U.S. Records was a subsidiary of Pickwick (yes, THAT Pickwick!), and while lousy pressings still showed up, the store no longer stocked the bootlegs. I just thought I'd share this info with the forum, as many collectors are probably still sitting on Stanley Markowski's crummy bootlegs! One sidebar to this story is that we got what appeared to be nice, original Coral pressings of Buddy Holly's "True Love Ways." The labels were perfect, the vinyl had no pits or visible defects, and they weren't pressed on garbage vinyl. Imagine my surprise when I played a copy in the store and the sound was in full true stereo! Coral never issued this as a stereo single, and if they had, the label would have been a special one designed for a stereo single. This one had the standard orange label with the horizontal bars and CORAL in a semi-circle at the top of the label. I know this came from Stanley Markowski, but for once, the guy did a commendable pressing job.
Back to Top View Tom Daly's Profile Search for other posts by Tom Daly
 
Yah Shure
MusicFan
MusicFan


Joined: 11 December 2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1256
Posted: 20 October 2017 at 10:02pm | IP Logged Quote Yah Shure

Welcome aboard, Tom!

I know all about THAT Pickwick, having worked for the company during the mid '70s at the Minneapolis Distribution Division, although nobody in the building called it that; to us, it was still Heilicher Brothers (home of the Soma label.) We've discussed some of these counterfeit 45s here before (if they're made to look like the legitimate releases, they're counterfeits, not bootlegs.) They typically showed up in the cutout bins in the Musicland stores here in the Twin Cities, beginning in the late '60s; packaged in those 3-for-$1 Sutton Record Co. plastic sleeves. What gave them away were the skinny title and artist fonts. Those Calico "Since I Don't Have You" Skyliners 45s with the thin fonts? Counterfeits. They were the very same fonts used on the "Blueberry Hill" counterfeits and a host of others.

The really obvious giveaway when I bought the "True Love Ways" counterfeit for my jukebox was the fact that it was pressed on orange vinyl. The labels were also matte, not glossy; the matrix numbers weren't machine-stamped like the real Gloversvilles and Pinckneyvilles. You're right that it was an improvement over things like the yellow-vinyl "Rave On", with the wide deadwax and the lock groove cut too far from the label to trip the jukebox's record change mechanism. Didn't Stanley observe those RIAA specs? ;) The stereo "True Love Ways" did have some sibilance issues, although that was to be expected, considering its source.

Counterfeit or not, at least it was an option, especially for those of us who didn't want to grind up an original Coral pressing on the Seeburg! That "Rave On" going "ka-CHUNK...Ka-CHUNK... ka-CHUNK" 'til the cows came home? Not so much.   
Back to Top View Yah Shure's Profile Search for other posts by Yah Shure
 
KentT
MusicFan
MusicFan


Joined: 25 May 2008
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 552
Posted: 29 October 2017 at 5:44pm | IP Logged Quote KentT

Thanks for the explanation why original looking 45 singles
of Buddy Holly and others were available in the late
1970's seemingly NOS, but the pressings didn't appear to
be legit Coral or Brunswick, the deadwax was not Decca. I
bought a copy of "Peggy Sue". Which was a dodgy pressing
but sounded decent.

__________________
I turn up the good and turn down the bad!
Back to Top View KentT's Profile Search for other posts by KentT
 
Steve Carras
MusicFan
MusicFan


Joined: 29 July 2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 131
Posted: 31 October 2017 at 7:52pm | IP Logged Quote Steve Carras

KentT wrote:
Thanks for the explanation why original looking 45 singles
of Buddy Holly and others were available in the late
1970's seemingly NOS, but the pressings didn't appear to
be legit Coral or Brunswick, the deadwax was not Decca. I
bought a copy of "Peggy Sue". Which was a dodgy pressing
but sounded decent.


A reply just in time for his sad death..:(

__________________
I'm all about that bass
-Meghan Trainor,2014
Back to Top View Steve Carras's Profile Search for other posts by Steve Carras
 
Tom Daly
MusicFan
MusicFan


Joined: 20 October 2017
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7
Posted: 06 March 2018 at 11:42am | IP Logged Quote Tom Daly

Pat Downey wrote:
Tom Daly just sent me a detailed explanation of the history behind the release of Blueberry Hill which I thought everyone would enjoy reading:

The master for “Blueberry Hill” had splices in it that got stuck in the tape machine when the production master was dubbed that was used to cut the 45 rpm stampers. This same tape found its way to the master reel for the vinyl LP, This is Fats Domino. This is probably why everyone thinks that THE tape suffered damage, however the 78 rpm issues, released simultaneously with the 45s had no such issue, and it is the 78 rpm master that has been used since United Artists Records bought Imperial from Liberty, after Liberty had bought the label from Lew Chudd. Bob Hyde, who ran Capitol/EMI Music Special Markets when I first began mastering ERIC Records’ CDs, gave me the lowdown on the pedigree of those tapes a long time ago when we conversed about low-generation sources. To confirm what Bob had told me about the history of “Blueberry Hill,” I sought out a 78 rpm Imperial shellac disc, played it and what I heard confirmed what Bob had told me. The 78s had no trace of a tape snag anywhere in the recording where they occurred on the original 45s and the LP pressing of This is Fats Domino. Liberty/UA has always used the 78 rpm master tape for subsequent reissues, and only original red, orange or black label Imperial 45s and the aforementioned LP have the tape snag. Interesting sidebar: the master containing the snag had RIAA pre-compensation on it. The master for the 78 is flat. I just thought you might be interested in this info that will probably die with me if I don’t share it with someone else who cares. Bob Hyde has been gone for the past 15 years, so he won’t be sharing the info with anyone else!

Tom Daly



Sorry I took so long to provide this, but I'm not as healthy as I used to be and it takes time to locate stuff and get it dubbed. Here's a clean dub of a 78 rpm pressing of "Blueberry Hill" for your comparison.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/wt3k7big2qmtv5p/Fats%20Domino%20-% 20Blueberry%20Hill%20%5B78%20rpm%20dub%5D.mp3?dl=0

Tom Daly


Edited by Tom Daly on 06 March 2018 at 11:44am
Back to Top View Tom Daly's Profile Search for other posts by Tom Daly
 
aaronk
MusicFan
MusicFan


Joined: 16 January 2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5161
Posted: 02 April 2018 at 9:57pm | IP Logged Quote aaronk

Tom Diehl mentioned this earlier in the thread, but I don't think it was ever explored.
Most (all?) CDs contain a "neither" version of "Blueberry Hill." As he said,
Imperial took a later part of the song and edited it into the earlier part. The
lyrics on those two parts are slightly different on the original. On the unedited
recording, the first time the line is sung, Fats sings "but all of those vows WE
made." The second time he sings it, the lyrics are "but all of those vows YOU
made."

Therefore, when Imperial edited the later part into the earlier part, the lyrics
became "vows YOU made" both times.

Anyone know if the original, unedited version appears on any CDs? All the
ones I checked are all the edited version. Here are the ones I checked:

Billboard Top R&B Hits 1956
Time Life Rock N Roll Era Vol. 14 1956
Time Life Solid Gold Soul Vol. 24 1956
Time Life Classic Love Songs of Rock N Roll Vol. 3
Heroes Of Rock And Roll

Edited by aaronk on 02 April 2018 at 10:06pm


__________________
Aaron Kannowski
Uptown Sound
Back to Top View aaronk's Profile Search for other posts by aaronk Visit aaronk's Homepage
 
Yah Shure
MusicFan
MusicFan


Joined: 11 December 2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1256
Posted: 03 April 2018 at 10:21am | IP Logged Quote Yah Shure

You can add Fats' earlier They Call Me The Fat Man box to the list of "you"/"you" edited revisions.

Edited by Yah Shure on 03 April 2018 at 4:18pm
Back to Top View Yah Shure's Profile Search for other posts by Yah Shure
 
aaronk
MusicFan
MusicFan


Joined: 16 January 2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5161
Posted: 03 April 2018 at 12:41pm | IP Logged Quote aaronk

(post deleted for clarity)

Edited by aaronk on 06 April 2018 at 8:56pm


__________________
Aaron Kannowski
Uptown Sound
Back to Top View aaronk's Profile Search for other posts by aaronk Visit aaronk's Homepage
 
crapfromthepast
MusicFan
MusicFan


Joined: 14 September 2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1582
Posted: 03 April 2018 at 1:21pm | IP Logged Quote crapfromthepast

The US 78 has "we"/"you". (Confirmed in Tom Daly's 78 dub, and a separate red-label Imperial 78 dub on YouTube.)

The first pressings of the 45, with the glitch, also have "we"/"you". The glitch shows up right before the line with the word "we". The glitch also shows up on some foreign pressings of the 78. (Confirmed on a red-label Imperial 45 on YouTube, a black-label Imperial 45 on YouTube, and a black-label London UK 78 dub on YouTube.)

The later pressings of the 45, without the glitch, have "you"/"you". (Confirmed on black-label UA Silver Spotlight Series label dub on YouTube, a yellow-label LR Records 45 dub on YouTube, and a tan-label UA 45 dub on YouTube.)

If Imperial (or some other label?) really used the 78 master on later 45s, they would have "we"/"you", not "you"/"you". This seems to contradict Bob's story from above, unless someone can find a glitch-free 45 that has "we" at 1:05, not "you".

Edited by crapfromthepast on 03 April 2018 at 1:27pm


__________________
There's a lot of crap on the radio, but there's only one Crap From The Past.
Back to Top View crapfromthepast's Profile Search for other posts by crapfromthepast Visit crapfromthepast's Homepage
 
aaronk
MusicFan
MusicFan


Joined: 16 January 2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5161
Posted: 03 April 2018 at 1:35pm | IP Logged Quote aaronk

I agree, Ron, that Bob must have been mistaken. All of the 45 dubs I've heard either have the glitch or have "you/you." It's also easy to spot where they spliced in the later part of the song. You can hear very brief tape dropouts (splices) at 1:03 and 1:07.

__________________
Aaron Kannowski
Uptown Sound
Back to Top View aaronk's Profile Search for other posts by aaronk Visit aaronk's Homepage
 
Yah Shure
MusicFan
MusicFan


Joined: 11 December 2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1256
Posted: 03 April 2018 at 4:26pm | IP Logged Quote Yah Shure

Aaron, I stand corrected about The Complete Imperial Singles set, and updated my above post. It does, indeed, contain the usual "you/you" edit. Mea culpa.
Back to Top View Yah Shure's Profile Search for other posts by Yah Shure
 
MMathews
MusicFan
MusicFan


Joined: 18 August 2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 804
Posted: 06 April 2018 at 2:45pm | IP Logged Quote MMathews

Yes most of Bob Hyde's time-line was correct, but he was
mistaken about the 78 master being used later. The 78
master was THE master. Once it got "snagged" or broken it
was repaired with the splice. To my knowledge, the
repaired master was the only one left in existence. All
later pressings of the Imperial 45, Spotlight 45s and all
subsequent vinyl LP and CD releases are the repaired one.

i'm still a bit incredulous that in 1956 they allowed
that snagged version to be released on so many copies. I
mean, are you kidding? How is anyone supposed to listen
to it like that?? Unbelievable.
MM
Back to Top View MMathews's Profile Search for other posts by MMathews
 

Page of 2 Next >>
  Post ReplyPost New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum



This page was generated in 0.0938 seconds.