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Subject Topic: "Every 1’s a Winner" - Hot Chocolate Post ReplyPost New Topic
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aaronk
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Posted: 15 May 2008 at 1:15pm | IP Logged Quote aaronk

Again, to add to Todd's comment, it may be true that digital editing was avaiable by the late 80s (not sure). The question is: How accurate was the technology at the time? Perhaps you couldn't edit down to the sample, but rather just "in the neighborhood" with primitive digital editing tools. Furthermore, going back to Todd's original comment, even if those capabilities were available, most engineers would probably say "close enough" and move onto the next one.

LOL @ trying to splice tape sections back in. I hope someone's half eaten sandwich wasn't in the garbage with the tape!

Edited by aaronk on 15 May 2008 at 1:16pm
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Todd Ireland
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Posted: 15 May 2008 at 1:34pm | IP Logged Quote Todd Ireland

LOL! "Hey, how did this mayonnaise get on my tape???"
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crapfromthepast
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Posted: 12 November 2014 at 4:29pm | IP Logged Quote crapfromthepast

The longest version I have on CD is 4:00, on EMI UK's Time To Remember 1978 and Disky UK's The Beat Goes On Vol. 9 (1997). I'm unclear if this was the UK 45 version, the UK LP version, or an early fade of some other version.

There's a version with a fade that ends about 5 seconds sooner on Warner Special Products' 2-CD Good Times (1991). There's a whole lotta hiss on the fade, and the opening note is missing its attack. The version on Time-Life's Sounds Of The Seventies Vol. 19 1979 Take Two (1991) is based on Good Times but with the hiss removed. Avoid both of these, because the opening note sounds better on the other discs.

Finally, there's an edit of the above version on Rhino's Have A Nice Day Vol. 22 (1993). This edit removes 32 beats from 2:39 to 2:57 of the Time To Remember version, and fades about three seconds earlier than the Time To Remember version. Importantly, this version has a nice, smooth edit at 2:38.8. The same analog transfer is used for:
  • Rhino's cheapie Disco Hits Vol. 4 (1994; digitally identical
  • Rhino's Disco Years Vol. 6 (1995; digitally identical)
  • Cema's Rock N Roll Greatest Hits Vol. 5 (1995; digitally exactly 1.637 dB quieter)
Then... there's the true 45. If you remove 0.025 seconds right before the downbeat at 2:38.8, and fade from 3:23 to 3:36, you'll get the true 45.

I should point out that the song was recorded with a live drummer playing to a click track. The versions on CD run at 107.8 BPM (UK and WSP discs) or 107.7 BPM (Rhino and the digital clones) throughout, with no drift.

The edit in the true 45 is WAY off, and screws up the beat. Almost at "ouch" level. The Bill Inglot recreation on the Rhino disc is perfect, and falls squarely on the beat, where it should be.

Personally, I kinda like bad edits ("My Life", "While You See A Chance", the extremely short 45 edit of "Paradise By The Dashboard Light"), but the edit on the true 45 of "Every 1's A Winner" is painful. In this case, I'm all in favor of going with Bill Inglot's recreation, even if it's 4 or 5 seconds longer than the true 45

Edited by crapfromthepast on 13 November 2014 at 10:20am


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aaronk
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Posted: 12 November 2014 at 8:47pm | IP Logged Quote aaronk

I don't think the edit is bad at all (not like "While You See A Chance" or "Dream On" or "She's Gone). The beat is just slightly too quick. Not what I would call painful, though.

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crapfromthepast
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Posted: 12 November 2014 at 9:18pm | IP Logged Quote crapfromthepast

I don't mind the others because they're well executed, even if they're chosen to be in some very bad locations in the song. "While You See A Chance" keeps the beat throughout, even through the ayyyyy-eeeee.

In "Every 1's A Winner", the location is actually a very good place to put an edit, but whoever did the original 45 just plain missed. In my old analog splice tape days, I would never have let this one out the door.

I can't really think of any other edits in hits that take out too much or too little material and screw up the beat of the song. And we've dealt with a LOT of 45 edits here on the board.

Or... it could be that I'm just extra-sensitive to edits. :)

Edited by crapfromthepast on 13 November 2014 at 10:06am


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aaronk
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Posted: 12 November 2014 at 9:40pm | IP Logged Quote aaronk

You must be extremely sensitive to any drift in tempo. I'd say the edit is less than 4/100 of a second too early. By the way, Ron & I are both registered for that hair-splitters convention next month ;)

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Brian W.
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Posted: 13 November 2014 at 3:09am | IP Logged Quote Brian W.

crapfromthepast wrote:

I can't really think of any other edits in hits that take
out too much or too little material and screw up the beat
of the song.


Psh, I can. Billy Joel "My Life" (loses the beat at 3:11
when the edit comes back in; comes in a hair too late) and
Diana Ross "Ain't No Mountain High Enough" (where the
background singers apparently sing "o wind, no rain" at
00:50).

Edited by Brian W. on 13 November 2014 at 3:09am
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Hykker
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Posted: 13 November 2014 at 6:24am | IP Logged Quote Hykker

aaronk wrote:
I don't think the edit is bad at all (not
like "While You See A Chance" or "Dream On" or "She's
Gone).


Maybe it's just because I was familiar with the 45 version
long before I heard the album, but to me the edit of "Dream
On" sounds better...to my ears the stuff that was edited
out sounds "tacked on" on the LP.

Hate to say it, but the edits on "While You See A Chance"
never jumped out at me. Then again I never really cared
for the song, and didn't pay close attention. I'll have to
give it another listen.
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aaronk
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Posted: 14 November 2017 at 3:49pm | IP Logged Quote aaronk

80smusicfreak wrote:
I don't own a whole lot of vinyl, but the commercial U.S. 12" single for "Every 1's a Winner" on Infinity 16000 happens to be one of the few pieces in my collection (if about a hundred is "a few"). :-) The label lists a timing of (7:17), but it actually clocks in at (7:05), as it was one of the first pieces I put on CD-R.

It appears that the commercial and promo 12" timings must be slightly different. The promo 12" runs an actual 7:18.

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Paul Haney
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Posted: 15 November 2017 at 4:56am | IP Logged Quote Paul Haney

Hykker wrote:
Hate to say it, but the edits on "While You See A Chance" never jumped out at me. Then again I never really cared for the song, and didn't pay close attention. I'll have to give it another listen.


Once you really hear it, you'll never be able to un-hear it!
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